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Im having this issue myself- Im in Las Vegas, NV
I moved into an apt complex in Aug 08 and I have been scammed too!
I read the utility adendum, I even had the leasing agent explain it to me.
She told me my water, trash and sewer would be around $40.00 per month.
Well, my bills are running around $120.00. I have been so angry about this, I called
everyone I can think of. I called The water company: they told me its not regulated and they can do anything they want. I called the Public Utilities commission and they said the same thing, with the expection that they have certain opinions but are unable to act since there are NO REGULATIONS!! So, one of them gave me a little direction as to what my next step could be. (Well, if you are so upset, email your local assemblymen and ask for a BDR, and have the law changed). I DID!!!
I'm optimistic, I get to testify when the bill gets drafted. I also understand that Im just one person and chances are, it may not go my way....But really, what do I have left?
I spend about 10hrs a week, trying to get my message to fellow apt dwellers. Heres what I have been publishing!!
Does anyone know what Ratio Utility Billing Systems and Master Meters are??
RATIO UTILITY BILLING SYSTEM (RUBS)- is a method of billing used for utilities based upon a formula of square footage, number of occupants, and rooms.
MASTER METERS- can be for Electricity, Gas, but mainly for Water and Sewage.
A master meter is one meter used for a whole apartment community. No individual meters, just one big one or a few to provide utilities for the apt community. can be 80 units or even a thousand.
HOW ARE APT OWNERS BLEEDING TENANTS THROUGH THIS BILLING METHOD????
Lets say you were looking into an apt for rent:
2/2 bath unit- Lush Landscaping, pools, hot tub, saunas, ect
$1100.00 +$25.00 flat rate for water, trash and sewer=$1125.00
2/2 bath unit- Lush landscaping, pools, hot tub, saunas, ect
$1075.00 +$40.00 for water, sewer, and trash based upon a formula of occupancy or the RUBS billing method. This is what the leasing agent tells you, "your bill will never exceed this". (Who would have better knowledge, than the staff??)
1075.00 +$40.00=$1115.00
you go with at #2 A dollar saved is a dollar earned RIGHT!
Well, the first of the month comes around and you get your first bills
$1075.00 Rent
$80.00 Water
$30.00 Sewer
$5.00 for Trash
$4.25 service fee- this is what the 3'rd party billing company charges to bill you Well, my grand total is $1194.25
WOW..........should have went with apt #1, you would have saved $69.25
Do you see where the dishonesty happens.
In order for the Apartment complexes who use such billing methods to stay competitive, they drop the rental rate a few dollars less than another apt community. What they forget to tell you is that they will get back the money plus some when the first of the month comes around.
When you complain about this practice, some people ask, well was it in your lease and how did you not know.
First, you have to consider this.
When you factor in your own water consumptions from past experience, you dont think BIG MONEY.
What the leasing agents forgets to tell you or do not fully understand is, nor is it in your lease or utility addendum:
1. all tenants pay for the leaks
2. all tenants pay for the pools
3. all tenants pay for the landscaping
4. all tenants pay for vacant units- which tend to have a higher vacancy rate, due to price of the unit and utilities, and the misleading billing methods they use
5. all tenants pay for every common area
6. all tenants pay more, when other tenants move in additional people and pets that are not on the lease.
7. What portion if any does the landowner pay, if any at all? 1%, 5%, 10%??
7. On top of all that, they all come up with a formula based upon square footage, number of people ON the LEASE and bedrooms.
One other thing to consider, when writing out your next rent check. Do you know that not all tenants may be paying the same rate. Some tenants may pay significantly lower rates, depending on how new the program is.
Now, if your water bill is 80.00 and sewer is $40.00 and you have a neighbor who may be on an old lease and they pay $30.00 for both, for a family of 4. Who is picking up the $90.00 difference??
Are we?? Well, we don’t know because they wont open the water bill up to us.
Don’t withhold you utility payments, that’s grounds for late fees and eviction. Instead,
Contact me, and I will put you in touch with a local representative who wants to
Help you and others like you. HOW?? She wants to draft a bill preventing apartments communities from using this billing method!
Final Thought:
When looking into apartments, some people choose quality over savings. When you have a apt community that has no pools, spa, lush landscaping, gym, clubhouse, you are going to pay significantly lower rent vs. another apt community that offers such amenities.
That’s how Market rents are set anywhere, someone has to pay for the operational cost to maintain such features and amenities..RIGHT….the more you have to offer, the more rent you can ask for….that’s fair! So, why would any apt community thinks its ok to pass overblown utility fees off to tenants, when the have already paid for such amenities in higher rent!
Would you have rented here or any other apt community if you had known the other factors, not included in your utility addendum that make up your overblown utility bills?? I think Not!
Do you think this billing method promotes water conservation? If I’m going to pay
This much is water, shouldn’t I at least get my moneys worth. That’s my thought!
does your community employ a
does your community employ a "common area deduction"? your management or billing company should provide you with a sample calculation and walk you through your monthly calculation. if everyone in your community uses less, the total to be allocated is less and everyones' bills should be less.
water deduction
A common area water deduction is determined based on the amenities of the community. Amenities such as laundry rooms, car washes, pools, spas, and recreation centers will determine a percentage for the deduction. This percentage as well as irrigation used for landscaping is deducted from the amounts charged by water authorities. The remaining portion of the actual community water and sewer bill is then passed through to the residents using the allocation formula for each household.
Common area water usage deduction
My complex says they deduct common area water usage but won't disclose the actual formula used on this specific property. Written request to both the corporate owner and the third party utility billing service went unanswered. Furthermore, the formula can be changed at will. This is unfair business practice, deceptive and possibly fraud.
You are assuming a lot when you say "if" everyone in your community uses less .... EPA has stated they do not have reason to believe allocation billing results in water conservation. That may conflict with a study paid for by apartment owners and given no creadence by EPA or the Aquacraft study (EPA participated as well as many others) of 2004. That study concluded that allocation billing provided no price signal nor incentive to conserve to the tenant nor the owner. Some tenants might use less water and not enjoy a reduced bill, while other tenants or units can use more and not pay more. Your argument is invalid. Lew
i don't see any conservation
i don't see any conservation benefit when your water is included in rent. in fact, you'd be personally economically wasteful if you didn't use as much water as you could if there were no price signals. in a complex where i used to live in tx a guy started a car wash in the parking lot. but regardless of that, the math dictates that if the total usage goes down, your proportionate share goes down. its "community wide conservation" as opposed to "individual conservation". its ok if we disagree, we're just discussing on a forum. to call a thought invalid is kind of jerky imo.
in a battle of studies, of course neither side gives the other credence. apparently there are sample size issues, biases, etc.
your common area deduction percentage should be stated in your lease. some states, such as tx, mandate a certain percentage. when you say they won't disclose the actual formula, do you mean how they put together your common area deduction or how they compute your bill?
Inequity of RUBS water/sewer billing to tenants
Again, the operative word in your argument is still "if." If all the tenants use less water, everyone's bill will be lower. There is no reason to assume all tenants will use less water.
I finally got the actual formula used for one months billing. It took a lawyer to get it. The lawyer is still working on getting all the bills from the third party billing service, the corporate apartment owner as well as all billing details, percentages and any changes to the formula and when. The owner's bills and tenants bills will be compared for possible discrepencies and unfair billing practices. The obfuscation is reason enough to suspect the owner has reason not to disclose information that would be harmful to him.
Our leases, say we will be charged an allocable portion of common area water usage. No tenant, with whom I have spoken, understood that fact until I told him/her. One could say all those tenants are dummies and deserve to be screwed, which is the landlord's and their lawyers way of thinking. The owner, apparently, assumes the right to determine what portion of common area water usage is allocable. There is something wrong with that picture.
Some states have more controls on how owners bill tenants. Georgia simply says the owner cannot charge tenants more for water/sewer than the owner pays the public utility. That leaves the door open for abuse, since the owner can claim that even if he assumes one percent of the bill that is enough to prove he is not charging the tenants, as a whole, more than he pays.
Obviously, if there were submetering, tenants would only pay for what they use in their apartments and that is they way it should be.
There are meters that can be easily installed that transmit data wirelessly to a central processor/station without reading individual meters. In that case, everthing would be transparent and not deceptive or unfair to either the tenants or the owners.
There are purposefully gray areas and loopholes in the laws, so that there is no or a minimum of regulation and oversight. Apartment owners associations and utility submetering and allocation service associations have done a good job of lobbying to get things the way the want it.
Which, BTW, is the same sort of flim-flam way of business and politics that got our economy in such a mess. Coincidently??, it all happened during the same 8 years of the current administration under the control of conservatives. The vast majority of Americans have spoken on how they feel about the need for change. It is coming. Lew
without common areas being
without common areas being separately metered, what is the best way to determine how much should go toward a common area deduction? even in states where a certain percentage is mandated, what if you live at an property which has a lot of water features/pools/etc? the mandated percentage won't be enough and by your reckoning you are being "screwed".
the poster from vegas has it right, this issue is best solved legislatively.
its not the reading of meters that is the problem, as i understand it. it is the plumbing configuration in some properties which prevents placing a meter in a unit which only measures consumption in that unit. its called "cross-plumbing". most meters are read remotely today.
Inequities of allocation water/sewer billing
The property where I lived does have all the amenities. The best way to accurately determine common area water usage is to measure it at the pool, clubhouse, laundry, car wash, sprinkler system and hot tub. That way one could determine how much common area water usage to deduct from the total with many fewer meters. The problem I see with that is my landlord still wouldn't search for and disclose other needed details, like how many occupants are truly in each unit each billing period. Even knowing the formula still is not of much help to a tenant without accurate numbers/values used in the formula. My landlord's property also had a large percentage of vacant units that only he knew of, which skewed the formula results.
The bottom line about allocation billing is that, at best, it is arbitrary and an unfair business practice. Too many landlords cannot be trusted to do right by the tenants. They are only interested in their bottom line and one of the ways to do that is to obfuscate with deceptively low rent numbers. Tenants are surprised, when they get their water/sewer bills, to discover it isn't as cheap to live in the apartment community they chose. There is a lack of sufficient information disclosure but owners and their lawyers believe they word contracts to be legal.
I agree, legislation is one, and maybe the best, way to see that the billing systems are regulated properly to protect tenants. But, the apartment owners and their associations as well as the billing service associations have a vested interest in fight such changes and, so far, have been successful in keeping water/sewer allocation billing unregulated and without any oversight in Georgia and most other states.
Under the influence of special interests legislators deliberately word legislation so the meaning can be questionable, which leaves what we call loopholes and gray areas. Like, for instance, if a state doesn't have a law either specifically allowing the use of allocation billing or actually allows it, it is assumed to be allowed.
In 2000 Georgia's Assembly changed the code that specifically allowed allocation billing and said landlords would not be considered operators of Public Water Systems. Georgia legislators amended the law to say landlords "may" be considered Public Water Systems. That was in 2002 and the EPA made Georgia amend the code because it conflicted with superseding federal code promulgated in the Safe Drinking Water Act. It is obvious that the state and EPD never intended to designate any landlord an operator of a Public Water System. By using the word "may" instead of "shall" the legislators achieved what the landlords wanted - no regulation or oversight of what they do with water/sewer billing. Enforcement agencies and landlords cooperate to the best interest of where the money is, unless political leadership has enough ethics to provide proper monitoring, oversight, make change when needed and enforce the laws on the books.
Gray areas in the law should be challenged in court if government agencies and politicians do not act in the best interest of the people, set policy that is contradictory to the original/current intent of the law. Landlords, likewise, should be challenged in court, where appropriate.
I'm still waiting until EPA's Washington DC office makes a decision in my case. If EPA doesn't do what is right, it may result in a federal lawsuit against them as well as the state, landlord and his third party utility billing service. A nationwide class-action lawsuit charging conspiracy to commit fraud is a strong possibility.
I consider it my duty to inform tenants and do whatever I can to stop the use of RUBS water/sewer billing. I have probably done more research on the subject than most. It is important to understand and help others to do so as well. More widespread knowledge on the subject will, hopefully, lead to change for the betterment to tenants.
I hope the recent election will bring change to benefit tenants and all Americans. The possiblity of change, more regulation and oversight is significantly increased by the election of democrats with a more liberal philosophy.
These problems have been caused by a business-friendly environment assuming the conservative economic philosophy and trickle down theory is best policy. Personally, I'm tired of being trickled on with yellow liquid and not greenbacks and/or more and better job opportunities for middle income Americans. Lew
it may be the case that the
it may be the case that the pool, laundry, etc. can't be separately meterered just as your unit can't be separately metered. if that is the case, how do you do it? as for the other information, it makes no sense that your landlord won't provide it.
your legislature, as you posted in here, did regulate it. just not how you would like it.
if your lawsuit(s) are successful, the owners will still pass these costs along to you in the form of a rent increase. if RUBS were disallowed and in-rent billing mandated for buildings that can't submeter, utility usage will go up as tenants have less than zero incentive to conserve. this will raise operating costs and thus rent. if utility costs go up, the landlord has to calculate how much to increase rent to cover the costs. do you think they will be conservative in their estimates? the market can only restrain that so much. it may be a "careful what you wish for" scenario.
i saw that IN passed a law this year that said all new construction must be metered. This will eventually end the need for RUBS. eventually.
Inequities of allocation water/sewer billing
The county I lived in in Georgia requires new apartments to have submetering. It may be statewide, I'm not sure. New partments are also required to use low-flo plumbing fixtures and faucets, which conserves more water than any method of billing. The overwhelming number of apartments are older, existing and water-wasting. The landlord won't be passing water/sewer costs in the form of any higher rent to me. I'm out of there. Sure is nice winter weather in S. Florida. And, not having to deal with a greedy and unscrupulous landlord is icing on the cake. Still want the landlord brought to justice, though. Lew
I COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF!
Thank you........
NOTE: I would love to know how this saves water Lew.
I dont use my dishwasher, I make my kids take a bath together and do laundry two times a week. I didnt see my bills decrease at all......not one penny.
So, if I go through all of that, and still get billed like Im bathing Elephants in my apartment. While my neighbors sneak their relatives in and over occupy apartments, and take nice long showers.....Do, you think that next month Im going to try and save water! What would be the point.......wheres my incentive??
All I get is dishpan hands, dirty bath water and half clean kids....NO THANK YOU!
So I should turn my neighbors in??
If I thought that one neighboring family would be enough to bring my water bill down, I probably would. However, I live in a community of over 455 units. I know maybe 30 families here, and 5 of them nearly double the maxium allowed in a apt.
Im also reluctant to do the managements job and bring this to their attention.
Nor, would I get any comfort, telling on neighbors and having their families evicted because I want to save, MAYBE $1.00??
Its not my job to keep tabs on their tenants......ITS THEIRS
another reason why, this billing method should not be used!
extra occupants don't only
extra occupants don't only affect your utility bill. they take up parking, create more noise and traffic, create more refuse, use the common facilities more, and devalue your overall living experience. most importantly, they violate the law. not in a "maybe" or remote way. they simply break the law and their lease.
'
SOLUTION
SOLUTION
They should put in the utility addendum the following:
1. percantage owner pays for common area usage if any at all
2. that tenants pay for all vacant units......why is this important??
even though water consumption will be very minimal in vacant units, we still have to pay for the sewer fees, which run very high over here.
3. we pay for all the leaks, and people who are not on the lease agreement.
4. They should also put on the 3'rs party invoice.....THE DATE, METER READING as well as the whole price of the bill. T
5. They should also put in the invoice how many days for vacant units are we paying for and the type of unit, since they are using a formula for these units as well.
I think if those factors were disclosed that potential renters would be able to come to a resonable conclussion that they are going to pay alot, for things they cannot control by personal water conservation. PROBLEM SOLVED
IF LAND OWNERS WANTS TO USE THIS BILLING METHODS, THEN THEY SHOULD HAVE TO LIST THE FOLLOWING FACTORS AND PROVIDE SOME TRANSPARENCY TO THIS BILLING METHOD. If they cant, then they have no business using this billing method in the first place.
WILL THEY??? NO! WHY??? becuase then they would be forced to be honest! They couldnt scam anymore tenants.
Inequities of allocation water/sewer billing
A high percentage (20%), like at my former complex, significantly reduced the pool of residents with whom to split the unfairly high amount of common area water usage with which tenants were burdened. In addition, that complex was undergoing extensive renovations and workers were using water in many vacant units.
One new tenant told me she was shocked, when she got her first water/sewer. She said she conserved water and, although she had a washer and dryer, she didn't use them. She thought she would be lowering her water/sewer bill by using the laundry machines at the clubhouse. I explained to her that she had to use the same number of quarters to use the clubhouse machines as she would have in a stand alone laundromat off the property. Furthermore, tenants paid 85% of all the water used in the clubhouse kitchen laundry, restrooms and showers, pool, hot tub, car wash and sprinkler system. To add insult to injury, tenants even had to pay 85% of illegally used water in the sprinkler system during a ban on outdoor water usage because of the drought in N. Georgia. During the renovation project, the pool and hot tub were drained, resurfaced and refilled with 35,000 gallons of water, which I have reason to believe tenants paid for as well. Full billing disclosure will prove if my suspicion is true. All this points to the lengths of misuse and abuse some landlords will stoop to, if left unregulated and without oversight to make sure tenants have fair and equitable rights protected. Maybe all landlords are not that bad but it proves none can be trusted. My landord owned and operated 123,000 apartments. It is fair to assume other landlords do the same simply because they can and it is profitable. Tenants need to organize together and speak loudly to the right powers and demand change. Do it with many thousands of complaints, court action and pressure on politicians. Lew
some properties use only
some properties use only square footage. sounds like this may be a solution to the issue you are having with occupancy. what would you propose as an alternate way to bill? in rent?
Inequities of allocation water/sewer billing
Only one benefit to tenants with in-rent billing. It is not deceptive but certainly doesn't provide a price signal any more than allocation billing does. Thus, no conservation is likely.
I don't see any way to justify the use of allocation billing as fair and accurate to tenants. Using square footag only still provides no fair bills depending on how much each individual unit uses. If you refuse to measure individual unit's water usage with meters, then don't bill tenants separately for water/sewer. In any case, if there are more than 24 full time resident, a landlord using an allocation method is supposed to have a permit to operate a Public Water System. No landlord will do that. With all the water quality testing and reporting requirements of a Public Water System, it is far too cumbersome and costly. Lew
if people are not on the
if people are not on the lease but are residing in a unit, tell your landlord (best in writing) so they can't dispute actual knowledge and then you can avail yourself to landlord-tenant remedies.
Inequities of allocation water/sewer billing
There is no such remedy in Georgia. It is a very business friendly state. I did report absolute proof of more occupants in units in my own building than were on the lease contracts and nothing was done about it. I commented, "You are responsible for using the number of occupants as a factor in the allocation formula. You are knowingly allowing truthful tenants to suffer paying more for water/sewer than untruthful tenants, who benefit by paying less than they should because of undisclosed occupants and increased water usage." It is one of many of my arguments against my landlord and his allocation water/sewer billing practices and one of the reasons for a lawsuit.
The only benefit to tenants of water/sewer billing built into the rent is a real rent number that is not deceptively low. Such billing would not benefit the environment by water conservation any more than allocation billing does. Lew
Inequities of allocation water/sewer billing
The word needs to be spread to more (many thousands) tenants so they understand this problem, how they are being abused and what they can do to help bring about change and fair billing practices. Tenants in large numbers would do themselves a good service if they sent certified letters of complaint to the EPA as well as any other state agencies with jurisdiction over the sale of drinking water. Letters to state and federal legislators as well as consumer protection, fraud and environmental agencies would help draw attention to those who have the power to get something done. Some states regulate the sale of water through their Public Service/Utilites Commission. So, that is another alternative to which we all could complain.
I would love to get the media to do stories exposing the inequities to tenants of allocation utility billing. My lawyer advises against it for now.
The anonymous poster that is a proponent of allocation billing is obviously a landlord and posts self-serving statements. Personally, I like the fact that people like you have a name. I'm not afraid to post mine.
My recent landlord's lease contract has sections in the utility billing addendem that would allow him to start using the same utility billing service he uses for water, sewer and trash, to start allocation billing for electricity, gas and cable TV as well. I expect that would lead to further abuse of tenants.
The landlord is already trying to stick tenants with a sole gas provider. And, by so doing, getting a piece of that action (profiteering). It is illegal in Georgia to do that but most tenants don't know it.
My efforts to organize the tenants, complain loudly in large numbers and refuse to pay the water/sewer bills for a month got the bills lowered. Large numbers of complaining tenants cooperating together took the landlord's leverage to retaliate against individuals away. He couldn't evict everyone. I consider that winning a battle but there is still a war to be fought.
I gladly accept ultimately being evicted myself for the opportunity to move back to beautiful and warm S. Florida (daytime winter temps of 70-83 degrees are not hard to take) and be done with being screwed by unscrupulous landlords. Lew
RE: common area deductions
They say they do, but they dont know how much- Leasing agents
I had the PUC call them, and the manager told them, there are two
water bills, one for common area and one for the buildings. Then
I talked with the water meter man, who comes and measures
the meter, he say NO WAY........not true at all. We arent set up that
way....its mastered metered.
I called the third party billing company to see what if any does the
owner pay and they said its optional and our owner doesnt pay at all.
I asked to see the bills and was told they are confidential. I called the PUC
and they confirmed this through email. HERES WHAT THEY SAID
I write in response to your recent e-mail expressing concerns about the Ratio Utility Billing System (RUBS) used by your landlord for charging utilities to tenants. You stated the utility charges at your new apartment vary each month compared to your previous residence. You would like to see the Ratio Utility Billing System regulated to provide customers the ability to see individual charges for their unit. The billing company states this information is confidential.
In 2003 the Legislature considered Senate Bill 194 that would have allowed a rental agreement to include provisions for allocation of utilities by a landlord to a tenant pursuant to a ratio utility billing system. Proponents argued that providing tenants with a separate bill for water would make renters more conscious of their usage habits and ultimately result in improved water conservation efforts. Some committee members expressed concern that the Bill did not provide adequate protection to tenants. For example, if a landlord previously included utilities in the cost of rent, there was no guarantee that a tenant’s rent would be reduced once the landlord began billing the tenant separately for water usage. The measure did not pass. Information about the Bill is available online at: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/72nd/Reports/ history.cfm?DocumentType=2&BillNo=194
THATS BASICALLY WHERE IT HAS ENDED. I got another assemblyman to request a BDR, now Im waiting to go testfy in this matter.
Basically, they dont have to show me anything.......NO REGULATIONS...no help
So, until something gets done about this billing method, tenants will continue to be
scammed and taken advantage of!
Inequities of allocation water/sewer billing
Anyone should be able to get copies of water/sewer bills using the Freedom of Information Act. In Georgia, we can also use an equivalent state law to disclose public information. The more difficult problem is getting the landlord/utility billing service to cough up the bills to tenants and the billing details. It takes detailed billing info from both sides to be able to figure out how a landlord is screwing his tenants. And, that is why they guard that info so much. Lew
so it sounds like your
so it sounds like your property has two master metered accounts and that common areas (pool, irrigation, etc) are confined to one of the two. So if they are only allocating the master metered bill that represents the usage in units, it would not violate your lease.
lots of buildings were constructed as master metered properties because builders realized it was cheaper to do so and some utilities didn't want to install individual meters. sad but true. less common these days.
to calculate your bill--as i've done this myself, you need to know:
1. amount to spread (master metered bill minus common area deduction).
2. square footage/occupants in your unit
3. total square footage/occupants.
Make a ratio by divding your square footage or occupancy by the total and apply to amount to spread.
your lease should spell this out in some way shape or form. if not you have good cause to claim that your landlord is violating the terms of the lease.
water bills
Lew,its been awhile,glad to see you are still at it. I intend to pursue matters in court as soon as I get definitive closure from the BBB. Ista sent me a master bill and guess what? my apartment unit was not even listed, for the common area only bills we were billed entirely for and to boot anyone stating this practice is fair check out the news from a few months ago. There was a quad murder at timber ridge in ohio, it was broadcasted and made national news. In the report it stated there were the 4 men that were murdered along with 3 other men that also lived there. I hate to use this tragedy but it does prove a point. Only 4 people maximum should be residing in a 2 bedroom unit, unfortunatly it is common for residents to cram 7-10 or more people into an apartment. Without using seperate meters, I am paying for everyones laundry, pool water and showers for others who cannot abide by rules or the law. How can anyone say this is fair. I know for a fact there were months when my bill was extremely high for me and my daughter-300 in the spring, while nieghbors with far to many people paid less. The whole system is ridiculous and landlords suck at paperwork. Timber ridge was sold shortly after I moved out. The funny thing- They ask me to leave at the end of my lease and then after I complained loudly enough, I recieved notice to stay in thier community on june 1st-my move out date was the 2nd.
water/sewer billing
Hi, Bev: Talk to a large (must have sufficient resources to fight BIG special interests) law firm (one that will represent plaintiffs other than BIG business) specializing in environmental, class action and business law. No law firm, for now, knows about allocation billing for water being illegal without a PWS permit. If they want info, tell them to contact me. I can point them to documents that make the case for a SDWA violation, if tenants are being allocation billed separately for water, absolutely crystal clear without a shadow of a doubt. My attorneys have agreed to represent me on a contingency basis in the SDWA part of the case, of which they are very confident, and are still investigating other possible violations to pursue such as overbilling, unfair business practices, deceptive practices/fraud and consumer protection. EPA is now cooperating and putting preassure on the state to enforce SDWA and require the apartment owner to register as a PWS or cease and desist. Either way, they are responsible for the wrong they have already done to tenants. Region IV Chief of Drinking Water Section has also notified their Washington DC office of the problem here and that it exists in other states as well. The tidal wave is nothing more than a ripple now but will grow to a tidal wave sweeping change across the nation. Complaints to EPA, if the state won't do anything, should be submitted in writing, dated, signed and sent certified to the appropriate Chief of Drinking Water Section in your region. Describe the property, its owner and how he is using an arbitrary, inaccurate, inequitable and abusive allocation water billing formula without a permit to operate a PWS as required by SDWA and EPA. EPA and equivalent state agencies will not look for violations. If violations are properly reported in writing, they must respond. The more reports that are made the sooner this abusive practice will be stopped everywhere in the U.S. Currently, only four states don't allow the use of allocation billing also known as Ratio Utility Billing System (RUBS). Later, amiga. Lew
water bills
I lived in an Aimco properety and have been disputing thier bills for 2 years. My daughters room where the meter was, was also a fire hazard. One bedroom apartment not even 700 square feet and they tried to bill me almost 300.00. Called the EPA, the governer, weights and measures, the fbi,lawyers duke energy and nobody will help me. There is no jurisdiction. After requesting all bills from Ista, I was given notice to leave 2 days later. The building inspector was disgusted by the HVAC unit and still I am fighting to see what I can do about it. BBB closed case yesterday , lack of response from AIMCO/. Ista sent me something, but of course it listed no rates and now they are telling me i also paid for everyones heat because the heaters constantly run in the winter even though i turned my furnace off. I was also harrassed by the landlord before moving out who lived next door, and all the nieghbors quit talking to me because they were afraid they would be asked to leave as well. I was ioncredibly stressed before moving out due to everything that happebned and would really love it if a lawyer were to read this and be interested. Good person seeking justice.
Lew, I'm curious why sdwa
Lew, I'm curious why sdwa testing would be necessary if there are no meters installed at the property. From my understanding, the water is compliant at the master meter and then nothing else touches it.......
Applicability of sdwa to water/sewer billing
The apartment complex where I live was built before lead/copper were prohibited in plumbing. Also, there is a significant amount of underground piping in the complex distribution system that could be vulnerable to contaminants entering through breakage/leaks, which have occurred. The SDWA says any person selling drinking water through a distribution system to 25 or more full-time residents is a PWS and subject to regulation by NPDWR unless submetering is used. The purpose is to encourage water conservation, which the EPA is satisfied is accomplished with submetering but not using an allocation method. In my case, the apartment complex fits the EPA/SDWA definition of a small consecutive community water system type of PWS. The SDWA also says all PWSs must test water safety/quality and provide Consumer Confidence Reports (CCRs) to the consumers. In this case, the only ones that may be receiving CCRs are the apartment owners and not the end users/tenants. Our water is not tested at the taps according to SDWA/NPDWR requirements. An apartment complex is closer to the description of a mobile home park than it is to an apartment building. Mobile home parks, even those using submetering, are not exempt from complying with SDWA/NPDWR and being designated PWSs. Short answer to your question is, the water on private property is not tested at the taps. Thus, no one knows if/when there may be a problem with water quality and that violates the SDWA. Hope that satisfactorily answers your question. Later, amigo. Lew
it does and it doesn't. in
it does and it doesn't. in the same situation, where an owner would submeter, the owner is exempted. it doesn't add up. if the concern was with the plumbing, why exempt when submetering occurs? conservation balances out the health concern? also, i don't understand your distinction between an apartment complex and an apartmenta building.
water/sewer billing
EPA's exemption was apparently an attempt to urge landlords to use submetering that would result in conservation. The whole damn thing was useless, because states like the one I live in allow the use of the allocation method of billing and no landlord is ever going to pay to retro-fit submetering, when they have the option to use allocation, which costs zero. The entire system is faulty and landlords and third party utility billing services are getting fat on the backs of tenants. Some of the proponents of landlords billing back and recovering water/sewer/trash get irate claiming that tenants have no right to free wate. When was water or anything else in an apartment free. All business expenses are considered before the landlord sets a rent number. In the past water/sewer/trash were bundled into the rent. Landlords love to bill back for water/sewer/trash, because it is a defacto increase in rent. Landlords love to exhibit a low rent number. Many tenants are fooled by it. I'm not. You want me to pay for water/sewer/trash by billing me separate for it, show me a detailed bill of how much I should be paying based on what I used or contributed to trash. Don't demand I pay for your normal operating expenses by billing me separately plus rent and refuse to disclose to me exactly what I used or how your formula works, precisely with all the factors plugged in. My landlord refuses to disclose such information. It could be used to determine if he is complying with the law in Georgia that states he can't charge me more for water/sewer than he pays for it plus a reasonable service fee. So, I have to get a lawyer or a whole bunch of lawyers to fight against a greedy and unscrupulous landlord. EPA or state environmental enforcement agencies don't actively look for violations. So, I reported one and guess what? They are taking action, I think, or so I was led to believe??? Stay tuned for further develpments.
when utilities are billed as
when utilities are billed as a component of rent, isn't it possible that the way the owner determines the component could result in a tenant paying more than what they would if they were metered or separately billed under an allocated method? market forces control this to an extent, but it seems its more comforting to people to deal with it this way. the conservation benefits of separate billing still exist no matter if metered or allocated methods are used (there are other studies that show this by awwa, etc.). many buildings are constructed in a manner so that they cannot be metered without extensive retrofitting (which tenants would ultimately pay for).
water/sewer billing
Allocation billing for water as a separate item, whether it is included in a bill for rent or not, is prohibited by the SDWA unless the property is registered as a public water system. Any problem you have with that you should address to the U.S. Congress, who enacted the SDWA in 1974. The only valid and reliable study comparing the pros and cons of submetering vs allocation water billing that I know of, and that was/is recognized by the EPA, is the AquaCraft Study released in 2004. That study was unbiased and done on a wide scale, unlike the one you refer to. Unfortunately, greed being a common human fault, many apartment owners have taken unfair advantage of tenants by charging them for more than a fair amount of the water used on single master metered properties. I happen to live on one of those properties. From the first time I complained about this to my property manager, who told me they were/are complying with the law, I said, "If this is legal, it shouldn't be." I was determined to investigate the matter and ran into road blocks everywhere. Until, I found chink in the armor. Apartment owners associations, multi-housing councils and the national utility submetering and allocation association have done a heck of a job influencing the states to look the other way, even pass laws that allowed apartment owners to do as they pleased, and ignore superceding federal law. It is soon coming to an end. The only fair and acceptable method of water billing that conserves water is to have each apartment metered. It's not my problem to figure out how apartment owners are going to pass on the cost of water used on their property. I'm still working on the legality of allocation sewer billing but am convinced it is based on the same fallible formula of allocating water (the cost of wastewater is based on the amount of incoming water), thus it is just as wrong. The whole problem amounts to a conspiracy (between the owner and the utility billing company) to commit consumer fraud (deceptive practices involved).
lew, your analysis is off.
lew, your analysis is off. sdwa doesn't prohibit the practice. it arguably causes the property to be regualted differently but there is no prohibition on allocation. i agree that metering is the fairest way to do it, but in my investigation it became clear that it simply isn't possible in some buildings right now with existing technology. the comparison here should be allocation vs in rent billing, however. with allocation there is an incentive to conserve. with in rent there is none at all.
entire legislatures were "duped" into passing legislation which allows for separate billing? black helicopter alert!!!
water
SDWA and EPA do prohibit apartment owners from using an allocation method if the owner bills the tenants separately for water, unless they have a permit to operate a public water system. See: EPA memo of Dec. 16, 2003 (in the Federal Register on Dec. 23, 2003) titled, "The Applicability of the Safe Drinking Water Act to Submetered Properties." In that document EPA exempted submetered properties but not those using allocation billing. There are meters now available that can be put in a water line entering an apartment that wirelessly sends data to a central computerized tracking system. I am willing to pay for what I use in my apartment and not one drop more. The cost of any common area water usage should be factored into the rent as are any other operating expenses. The National Apartment Owners Association, the Multi-Housing Council and the National Utility Submetering and Allocation Association all know well about the EPA ruling. They submitted a formal Request to Reconsider to get EPA, I think it was in 2005, to reverse itself for not including the allocation properties in the exemption and failed. Whatever method of recovering water costs is used, it should not be deceptive. I was provided a formula that didn't apply to the property, where I live and which yielded a lower result when calculated MHP owners and their advocates failed to get MHPs using submetering included in the exemption.
Lew, it doesn't prohibit the
Lew, it doesn't prohibit the practice, it only arguably causes the landlord to be regulated. understand the difference?
some properties cannot be metered. my maintenance guy told me that there are multiple points of entry in some buildings for water. maybe yours is like that? also, my property deducts a percentage for common area usage (20% currently). should be in your lease.
Water
The SDWA and EPA don't say, an apartment owner who can't install submetering, for whatever reason, is exempted from being regulated as a public water system. I won't repeat what they do say. It is getting to be quite redundant. Did you read what AWWA said in Oct. 2004. I'm talking about the Website I provided to you. Who doesn't get it - me or you?
my point was--and now i have
my point was--and now i have to be redundant--that the sdwa doesn't state its "illegal" as you continuously argue. it arguably says they should be regulated and no one is aware of any jurisdictions which are doing so. apparently TN used to but they decided to stop in 2006. trust me, its you that doesn't get it on this angle. your lease is a way better avenue for you.
Water
Arguably should be regulated, you say. I'll bet funny, money or marbles your property is not regulated as a public water system. And, how many, not new, apartment complexes do you know of that are regulated?
no one knows of any,
no one knows of any, anywhere.
Water
I found it interesting, when I talked to the head of the EPA water office in the region that has primacy in Wyoming, to learn that in Wyoming, where EPA has jurisdiction, they don't enforce their own rules. The excuse given is that they and the states only act on reported violations from the public. The public is ignorant concerning the applicability of the SDWA to allocation water billing properties. I reported the violation and we will see what comes of it. I am not so naive as to believe my lone voice complaining is going to get results, when so much is at stake for apartment owners, third party billing services and the states with their claim of lack of resources to enforce compliance and monitor so many PWSs. Third party billing services will surely do their best to convince apartment owners to let them install submetering and continue to bill for water, only in a legal manner. Personally, I don't think submetering should be exempted unless the owner upgrades with low-flow plumbing fixtures, toilets and faucets. Then, maximum water conservation would be acheived and the billing would be fair, accurate and not deceptive. Certainly, costs would be passed on to tenants making owners happy. How do apartment owners survive and make a decent profit in the four states, MA, DE, NC and MS, that do not allow the use of RUBS? Lew
they ensure that the utility
they ensure that the utility component of their rent (and the market adjusts accordingly) is ample, and could even result in a "profit" and their tenants could conceivably leave their water faucet on for a whole month and not pay any more for water. So there is absolutely no incentive to conserve.
Water
No incentive for the tenants to conserve (except for the obvious increase in rent in the next lease contract if too much water is used) but does provide incentive for the owner to conserve. No deception is good.
The overwhelming majority of tenants are not aware they have signed a lease contract that allows the owner to bill tenants for water other than that used in their apartments until I tell them. You can say it is the tenants fault for not having the contract scrutinized by an attorney and made perfectly clear to him but, to me, it is clearly deceptive. Owners know prospective tenants do not read or understand everything in a 20 page contract designed by shrewd corporate attorneys. Consumer fraud maybe?
I would have no problem with allowing the use of allocation billing and exempting it like submetering, if owners were required to upgrade the plumbing with low-flow fixtures and faucets (government should provide incentives to upgrade) and there were decent regulations and oversight to prevent abuse. Georgia's good ole boy laws are exceptionally lenient on business owners and relies on them to do the right thing. The fox guarding the hen-house approach doesn't work - except for the fox. Lew
its tougher to conserve when
its tougher to conserve when you would only get feedback once a year compared to once a month on how much everone is using. i live in a building that uses "RUBS". if everyone uses less, we all pay less. if the owner increased rent because of utility costs and then we all stared using less, there is no way they would reduce the rent.
Water
You sound a whole lot more like an owner than a tenant. Why should a tenant not be allowed to see the billing details, including how much water was used, every month? That is part of the problem. There is no above board billing info. as would be the case if the units were submetered. Lew
i'm not saying we shouldn't,
i'm not saying we shouldn't, but in my complex metering can't be installed without extensive retrofitting or advances in metering technologies. i have access to all of the info I need to verify that the allocation is done as my lease says it will be. i need total number of occupants, total occupied square footage, amount of master metered bill and common area deduction percentage. I check their work every month.
i was frustrated like you were, engaged in discussions with my landlord and the maintenance staff and came to understand that separate utility billing is becoming more prevalent and that in rent billing isn't as great of a deal as you think it is.
Water
I'm glad you are satisfied with your landlords explanation of their fair and legal water/sewer billing method. I'm not even close to being satisfied. I have continuously been lied to by the property manager to the point it irritates me no end to listen to his lame excuses and claims of fairness and being regulated and testing the water, etc. He lies like a rug and insults my intelligence. The corporate landlord he works for is committing fraud as is the third party utility billing service. I get billed separately for water I don't use in my apartment and that burns my azz. Lew
with in rent billing you
with in rent billing you would be paying for water you don't use.
Water
The main variables involved in the amount of water used in any given month are: the occupancy rate of the complex, number of occupants per unit and the amount of irrigation water used, none of which is under control or fault of the tenants. Tenant's rent didn't go down when landlords started using allocation and separate water/sewer billing, despite the fact that water/sewer used to be included in the rent. Water/sewer billing is a defacto increase in rent and it is deceptive. Nobody in my complex knows, unless I told them, that they signed a contract agreeing to pay for water other than what they use in their apartment. Of course, that's fine with the landlord. He figures his lawyers or association got him off the hook - not. Lew
how to deal with suspected crooked sales persons
we seem to have a weekly parade of sales persons comming into our small business?
we now demand to see id from every sales person that comes in our business trying to sell something
( not their company id, their drivers lic) we even send someone out to get their car lic plate info)
I explain to them, ( if they actually give us the info, as most leave here like their ass in on fire once we ask for their personal info) that if they are trying to scam us, or we don't like the service we will know where to find them, and not deal with the company, but them directly.
I also tell them ( if they are still here) its only fair, since they know where we are just by showing up on our property.
this eliminates a lot of b.s. in the long run.
just recently some turkey cam in here trying to tell us he could provide us with better phone servic plan, when we demaned his dirvers lic for proff of id, ( he noticed we took down his car lic info) he took off insuch a hurry, he sideswiped the dumpster in our lot. ( no problem for the dumpster, but his passenger side mirror is still here incase he wants it back)
I say dont let these kind of crooks get away with anything. they are no more than common criminals, they just carry a note book rather than sneak in your back door to rob you.
all IMHO
i brought the "rent
i brought the "rent increase" argument up to my landlord as well. they said that they didn't increase rent when they rolled out separate billing. if they would have kept it in rent, they would have had to increase rent amount. and if people don't know, they should know as they signed a contract.
Water
What is the name and address of your apartment complex? Sounds like you have a very fair minded landlord. I might want to move there. Lew
i don't think so lew. its
i don't think so lew. its peaceful here. Also, you wouldn't like the other people in the complex who understand that a lease is a contract and they read and understood the terms prior to signing. by your reckoning, no one should read these things and then when something occurs (which they agreed to) that they don't like, they can get out of the contract by claiming they didn't understand it.
Water
I'm talking about apartment complexes not single buildings. There is no price signal to individual tenants, when they are billed using an arbitrary allocation formula. The key according to the SDWA is if the owner is billing tenants separately, they are selling water and subject to SDWA NPDWR. You can't assume that your bill will be lower because you use less water in your apartment. It depends on everyone else conserving and that isn't going to and doesn't happen. Lew
it happens where i live. we
it happens where i live. we are all cognizant of how the billing works and when we all use less, we all pay less and according to the landlord, the property is using much less water than when water was billed in rent. i see this as well when i get the master metered bill information.
Water
You, a tenant, get to see a mastered bill? That's different than where I live. My landlord likes to keep everything secret and only give vague assuring answers to questioning tenants, who are assumed to be brainless and gullible. Management absolutely refuses to disclose the precise formula and method of calculation with all factors plugged in for any given month. The only formula some tenants ever saw was one that did not apply to the property where they live. It had totally misleading values leading to a much lower resulting bill for a one bdrm. apartment with two occupants. Lew
that's not right. tenants
that's not right. tenants should be able to calculate their bill.
Water
When a landlord, like mine, refuses to disclose the precise allocation formula used on the property where a tenant lives with proper values for a month plugged in, the appearance of impropriety is overwhelming, IMNSHO. Contracts prepared by large corporate lawfirms are designed to provide maximum protection to landlords. A 20 page contract like mine is never fully read and understood by prospective tenants before they sign. No tenant in the complex where I live knows, until I tell them, what is in the contract. Landlords typically say, tough shit if the tenant doesn't read and understand but signs a contract, it's his fault. I'm doing my best to prove deliberately deceptive practices, which equals fraud. The hard part for the average tenant is to find a lawyer, who will take the case on a contingency basis. Lawyers generally want to be paid by the hour. In most cases like this, there is not enough money in it for a lawyer to take a case for an individual. Class action is the only possible way that gets the attention ($$$) of lawyers. The entire system is set up to make it very difficult for a tenant to enjoy protection from landlord abuse. Many tenants are considered to be low-lifes not bright enough to understand how they are screwed, are nothing but slobs, bums, rent skippers requiring PITA eviction processes and careless about the property of others. On the flip side, there are many landlords that are slumlords, take unfair advantage of tenants, use deceptive business practices and/or, in some cases, are downright illegally abusive. The worst landlords prey on the ignorant and often helpless and laugh all the way to the bank. Lew
Water
When a landlord, like mine, refuses to disclose the precise allocation formula used on the property where a tenant lives with proper values for a month plugged in, the appearance of impropriety is overwhelming, IMNSHO. Contracts prepared by large corporate lawfirms are designed to provide maximum protection to landlords. A 20 page contract like mine is never fully read and understood by prospective tenants before they sign. No tenant in the complex where I live knows, until I tell them, what is in the contract. Landlords typically say, tough shit if the tenant doesn't read and understand but signs a contract, it's his fault. I'm doing my best to prove deliberately deceptive practices, which equals fraud. The hard part for the average tenant is to find a lawyer, who will take the case on a contingency basis. Lawyers generally want to be paid by the hour. In most cases like this, there is not enough money in it for a lawyer to take a case for an individual. Class action is the only possible way that gets the attention ($$$) of lawyers. The entire system is set up to make it very difficult for a tenant to enjoy protection from landlord abuse. Many tenants are considered to be low-lifes not bright enough to understand how they are screwed, are nothing but slobs, bums, rent skippers requiring PITA eviction processes and careless about the property of others. On the flip side, there are many landlords that are slumlords, take unfair advantage of tenants, use deceptive business practices and/or, in some cases, are downright illegally abusive. The worst landlords prey on the ignorant and often helpless and laugh all the way to the bank. Lew
Water
My lease contract states I will be billed directly by the county public utility. I am not billed by the county public utility. I am billed by the third party billing service on behalf of the owner. The owner is billed by the county public utility. In the Water/Sewer section of the utility billing addemdum, it isn't marked for any service charges to apply. We are billed service charges. The contract states, the tenant will be billed for an allocable portion of common area water usage. Guess who decides what portion is allocable? Guess who refuses to disclose the billing method and precise formula (including the tenant's percentage of the total amount of water coming through a single master meter) used to calculate tenant's water/sewer bills on the property, where they live? I don't say every landlord abuses his tenants but mine does and the states leave the door wide open for other landlords to do the same. Too much regulation is bad and none at all is worse. Any business owner is permitted to make a profit as long as they abide by the law. My landlord is not abiding by the law and I know of countless others that are violating the same laws as well.
if that is the case you
if that is the case you should definitely bring this to the attention of your landlord and they should cease billing. That's a much better argument than your sdwa one.
Water
I have brought it to the attention of the property manager, even citing the laws being violated, many times over the past year. The property manager lied to me and insulted my intelligence numerous times. For instance, he assured me the water on the property was tested at the taps every 3 months by the water company. The public utiltiy water company says that is a bald faced lie. Finally, after several attempts, I got the EPA to agree that I was right and ordered the state EPD to enforce the law. EPD has a deadline of Sept. 30 to show they have taken appropriate action. My attorney officially requested billing information that would allow one to compare how much the owner paid for water/sewer and how much he charged tenants. Both of these actions had my name as complainant on them. Those actions became known by the landlord within 1 and 2 weeks before I received their notice refusing me a new lease.
The lease contract requires 60 days notice and that condition is met. Georgia is one of 8 states that has no law protecting tenants from retaliatory eviction or refusal to permit a new lease after the current one expires. The landlord needs no reason to evict. I'm looking at pursuing the landord on other charges. Maybe federal laws will apply? Lew
federal law will not apply.
federal law will not apply. the master metered bills will be discoverable in litigation but it is more likely than not that the total of the tenants' bills during a billing period won't be larger than the master metered bill. As I understand it, RUBS does not result in a profit (excluding fees which I believe are allowed in your state).
federal laws will not apply.
federal laws will not apply. but you have a good cause of action under state law based on your lease.
water/sewer billing
The difference is there is a lot of vulnerable (to contamination) underground piping in an apartment complex, which is closer to the type of system in a mobile home park than an apartment building, where the overwhelming majority of piping in the distribution system is above ground. The law (SDWA) regulates apartments differently than mobile home parks for that reason. According to the EPA, in times of drought like we now have in Georgia, more water used ends up as more wastewater returned to rivers and lakes, where there is less fresh water to dillute the contaminated water being returned. If you have an argument with the logic and reasoning behind the SDWA and the National Primary Drinking Water Regulations, you should take it to the U.S. Congress. They are the ones who wrote and enacted the SDWA in 1974. I kind of wonder too if submetered properties should be exempted and allocation using properties not if the reason is solely for the safety of water quality but it's not. Water conservation is the crux of the matter. EPA and the SDWA says if the landlord bills 25 or more tenants separately for drinking water, even if the water has been treated by a public water system, they are selling drinking water to the public and subject to regulation under the SDWA. Water from the taps in the distribution system inside the property is not tested and it's not safe to assume the water meets water quality standards. Large corporate apartment owners, third party utility billing services and their associations are well aware of the risks they have been taking since EPA ruled on this matter in Dec. 2003. They have requested EPA reconsider their decision not to include allocation using properties in the exemption and EPA refused to do so with good reason. The associations brag on their Websites of their successful lobbying to get the states to look the other way and not regulate them. It doesn't matter to them that federal law supersedes state law and what is happening is circumventing federal law, while EPA looks the other way and lets it happen. That's the way of conservatives in power and it's coming to an end soon.
highly unlikely that the epa
highly unlikely that the epa would be allowed to run rampant on the REITs on this issue. too much money involved and the EPA ruling doesn't make sense on its face. even if nader were elected.
Water/sewer bills
Hi Beverly: I'm continuing to pursue this matter consulting with attorneys who specialize in environmental law, the EPA, EPD and state and U.S. legislators. My landlord is violating the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) by selling drinking water to 25 or more full time residents without a permit to operate a public water system from the Georgia EPD. They would be exempted if they used submetering but EPA has ruled that apartment owners using an allocation method of billing tenants for water does not exempt them form having to comply with the SDWA and National Primary Drinking Water Regulations. Tenants get no drinking water testing/quality reports on samples of drinking water from tenant's taps as required by the SDWA. The only testing is done by the county public utility on water outside the private property and those reports go only to their customers/the landlords. Apartment complexes like mine have a lot of vulnerable underground piping in the distribution system that can break and allow contimants to enter the drinking water supply. Our buildings were also built before the prohibition of the use of lead and copper in plumbing, which can leach dangerous levels of toxic contaminants into the water in an apartment. This is especially a problem if the water is not used or not continuously flowing through the pipes. When the water sits for periods longer than 3 hours (I was gone for 2 months) it can tase bad and have dangerous levels of toxic metals.
The only reason I signed a new lease last Nov. was to stay and fight the unfair/illlegal billing. I have the same response from most of the other tenants not wanting to get into trouble with the management. However, many of them complained after I explained how they are getting screwed. Management has lowered the bills but I still am after them because it is illegal to use their billing methods. I have invited the property manager to try to evict me and see what happens. I believe they are scared because they know I'm right and want to avoid litigation, which will ruin their gravy train to the bank. If you are in Georgia and want my Atlanta attorney's name, send me personal e-mail off list.
On this comment lew, is this
On this comment lew, is this really the "sale" of water? the ga code that allows for utility billing doesn't term it that way. as i understand it, your owner gets a bill, pays it, then allocates amounts to be reimbursed by tenants pursuant to the terms of the lease. someone from another complex can't come over and "buy" water from your owner. also, if your utilities are billed as a component of rent, wouldn't that be a "sale" by your definition as well?
water/sewer billing
If you are referring to O.C.G.A. 12-5-180.1, it was enacted in 2000 and at the end included a sentence that excluded landlords, using either submetering or allocation billing methods, from being considered operators of public water systems. Two years later, 2002, Georgia EPD got the word that the code was not consistent with the federal SDWA. So, the inconsistant wording was deleted but EPD has not changed their enforcement policy one iota (is this lobbyist influence??) According to EPA and the SDWA, if a landlord bills separately for water he is selling. In this case it is re-selling through a third party utility billing service. In my case, the water is not submetered at each unit (so not exempted from being a public water system) and instead is allocated with an "arbitrary formula." Georgia has its own SDWA and it cannot be more lenient than the federal one. The federal one clearly states if the person is selling water, then he is not excluded from being considered the operator of a public water system. In this case, the landlord is operating a small (serving less than 3,000) consecutive (its water comes from a bigger public water system) community water system (public water system). If water is billed as a separate component of the rent, it is selling. There are two main things that are not being done in my case. One is being fairly billed for what I use only. The other is the method of billing does not result in water conservation, no matter what crap an apartment owners advocate might say about studies that back them up as conserving water with allocation methods. Ain't so. EPA is not satisfied it is so and the most comprehensive, unbiased and reliable study that was ever done (by Aquacraft 2004 and EPA participated) proves my and EPA's point. No, someone from outside the complex can't come and buy water from my complex. However, someone from outside the complex could come and take water free and I and the rest of the tenants would have to pay for it. Just like my landlord violates the outdoor water use ban/restrictions and the tenants get screwed paying for the illegally used water in the spinkler system. That is one of many examples of how unfair this billing method is to the tenants. How about the landlord has the swimming pool drained for resurfacing and refills it with 35 gallons of water that I suspect went on our bills. The landlord refuses to disclose bills that would allow one to determine if that actually happened nor does he disclose detailed information that would allow one to determine if he is complying with the aforementioned code that says he can't charge more for the water/sewer than he pays the public utility plus a reasonable service fee. Refusal leaves plenty of room for the appearance of impropriety. The bills will come to light but not with the cooperation of the landlord. Keep the questions coming. I like to answer them to the best of my ability. Thanks for your comment. If I am wrong, I want to be informed of what I am wrong about.
so there is no requirement
so there is no requirement state or federal (outside of your preference) for being billed for actual use. also, the study you reference is biased, but its biased in a way you like. someone could "take" water? That's theft.
water/sewer billing
The study I cite is the one EPA believes. And, yes, I do think it suits my purpose.
because the epa participated
because the epa participated in the study.
aimco and ista water bills
Unfortunatly i live in ohio where i am in an ocean of sharks alone, no help here. i found out aimco sold timber ridge, the apartment complex i lived at previously.I contacted the U.S dept of energy this morning and have also requested the master bills from aimco property so as to prove consumption. I am not sure if I mentioned my daughters room was found to be a fire hazard, the meters have no electrical inpection history by the prper authority (per building ibnspector) amnd the landlord who lived next store insisted on harrassing mne with constant pet notioces but only after the billing issue arose.I also hopped onto apartment ratings.com this mormning and wsaw they are doing the same thing to another tenant. gave an evition notice after they requested the ista bills. log on to apartment ratings look foor timber ridge 45241. I do not have the money for a lawyer and have been playing my own advocate which can get dangerous when dealing with large companies. NOT sure if you recieved my first email so I am resending. I cannot find the regulations of rubs in ohio law. If youre lawyer has any connections in ohio or any legal advice that can be passed on I would greatly appreciate it. I am a college student working as a waitess and raising an 11 yr old child. money and time are both hard to come by. any help appreciated. thanks
Illegal apartment water/sewer bills
Bev: Also, I'm not sure about Ohio but if you have a Public Utilities Commission, they might regulate drinking water. If so, contact them with your complaint. Ohio probably has a consumer complaint agency, who might be able to help with your landlord's unfair business practices. Later, amiga. Lew
ista/water/puco
Duke energy has no regulation over them, also. neighbors are to afraid tio make a fuss. called the iteam again and already notified the consumer council, called the fbi,weights and measures,the governers office, the epa,HUD and any other official you can think of. Still waiting to hear back frommthe dept of energy. I do believe the epa tests the water but I do not understand the reports. A lawyer wont listen because I do not have the cash and the laws on this are pretty non existant. they also turned the heat off last winter withou telling me, it was already freezing in my apt i didnt know the difference. Have the space heater they eventually dropped off which is a fire hazard in itself. There is so much to this story and I know I am in the right. I will do everything in my power to get justice, what they are doing is wrong, and I am so frustrated that now they are doiung it to someone else. Had someone listened someone else would not be sufferriong the way I did. I do not know how to get to you my email wihout posting it publicly. Help me do that because I would really love to talk to you in more detail. At this pointy, even in another state I believe you can help me more than anyone else can.
Thanks ,
Bev
Landlord's unfair water/sewer billing
Hi Bev: My e-mail: punkynlew@hotmail.com . Any tenant, who believes his/her landlord is violating the Safe Drinking Water Act should file a written, dated and signed letter of complaint to EPA Chief of Drinking Water Section of the appropriate regional EPA office and the equivalent office of the state environmental protection agency. Later, amiga. Lew
Just received billing for sewage/water bill
I Just received water/sewage bill separate fm rental bill. I live in a complex of 160 apts and we are not submetered. Need any info u have regarding this matter. Who to contact and where to go to. Being billed same as tenants who have 2 to 6 people in their apts and I live alone. How can a landlord get away with this. I live in California
Landlord abusing tenants with illegal water/sewer billing
Bev: Use the info I've offered and try to get the interest of lawyers who specialize in environmental law (landlord/tenant lawyers don't have a clue about this) and peak their interest with a possible class action lawsuit, which is a way for them to make money if they win a contingency case that doesn't cost you anything. Trick is to make sure there are lots of other tenants who suffered the same wrong by the same person/entity, so the total loss and punitive damages will be sufficiently high to interest the lawyers. In my case, I'm going after all 6 of the landlords properties in Georgia, so it involves a lot more damages than just to me or even one complex.
What I'm talking about is violation of the U.S. Safe Drinking Water Act and the "Applicability of the Safe Drinking Water Act to submetered properties" (in this case the problem is with properties that don't submeter but bill tenants separately from the rent for water/sewer). The part in quotes is the title of an EPA memo/ruling that can be searched for online using the title as key words. If you need documents supporting what I say for lawyers, give me your e-mail address and I will send attached files detailing the applicable laws. Yesterday, I asked the property manager, "Who does water quality testing from taps inside the apartment complex?" He outright lied to me saying, "The water company comes out and tests every 3 months." I said, "OK, so where are the consumer confidence reports you are supposed to get from the public utility and that you are supposed to provide to the tenants annually?" He clammed up, talked about how "Your lawyers should talk to our lawyers" and got so nervous, I could almost smell the fear oozing from his pores. I called the top dog at the county water resources division, which is the public utility/water system that provides treated water to the master meter, where it enters the complex and was told they absolutely do not test the water inside the private property of apartment complexes but acknowledged it is required of the landlord, who we pay for the water/sewer. I am so furious, I could defecate a brick, called the lawyer and gave him more ammunition for the case. Later, amiga. Lew
Apartment owners selling water to public w/out a permit
Has anyone ever tried contesting apartment owners using Ratio Allocation Billing Systems (RUBS) and third party billing services for illegally selling drinking water to the public because they bill tenants separately for water without submetering? My research indicates that it is a violation of the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) Section 1411 and an EPA memorandum/ruling on the subject in Dec. 2003. I live in Georgia, where the the Environmental Protection Division (EPD) has primacy and is failing to enforce the law. No other state agency regulates apartment owners or the sale of water, not even the Public Service Commission. There is absolutely no oversight. So far, my lawyers like the case and are still researching it and hope to file a class action lawsuit on a contingency basis. The law firm specializes in environmentsl law and the lead attorney used to work for the EPA. A current EPA attorney told me I was right. The head of the EPA Region IV water office in Atlanta said I was right, until he found out a few days later that I was intending to file a complaint against all my landlord's 77 apartment complexes in 10 states, which caused him to choke and got his sphincter puckered up.
In 2000, Georgia passed a law, OGCA 12-5-180.1, making it legal for apartment owners to bill tenants separately for water/sewer using either submetering or RUBS and not be considered to be operating a public water system. Two years later, in 2002, Georgia deleted the language that said apartment owners using such billing methods wouldn't be considered public water systems, in order to comply with the superceding federal code and the SDWA. However, the Georgia EPD never changed their enforcement policy one iota.
I and all the other tenants where I live are infuriated by the deceptive tactics of the landlord and the doubling of water/sewer bills in a year since the new owner took over the property and contracted with National Water and Power as the third party billing service. Tenants in one bedroom apartments are paying far in excess of single family home owners in the area and some families in a two bedroom unit are paying over $100/month. The landlord is abusing the tenants with common area water usage, like filling the swimming pool with 35,000 gallons of water and illegally using the sprinkler system for 22 days during a ban on outdoor water usage and billing tenants for it. I reported the water ban violation and got their irrigation line shut off and locked during our level 4 drought condition. If I am successful with the lawsuit against the landlord's six Georgia properties, all of which do the same thing and use unfair business practices, it will set a precedent and lawsuits will surely follow all over the country.
I am also working on stopping the landlord from playing big brother and controlling who we can get other utilities from, like contracting for natural gas as a sole provider on the property, while making an additional profit at the expense of the tenants. Comments are welcome. Highly POed
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