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National Energy Rebate scheme
THE FOLLOWING IS AN E-MAIL CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN UCAN's EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR (in black) AND THE CEO OF NATIONAL ENERGY REBATE CORP (in blue). IT ENCAPSULATES OUR CONCERNS ABOUT THIS SCHEME AND THE COMPANY'S RESPONSE. OUR ADVICE: "BUYER BEWARE." WE FURTHER RECOMMEND AGAINST DOING BUSINESS WITH RETAILERS WHO USE THE NATIONAL ENERGY REBATE SCHEME.
Yes, I have a very serious problem with your program, beginning with your web site which is extremely deficient in explaining your program. For example:
First: The website is not designed to fully explain the program. It is there to help someone contact us for more information and provide a basic overview of the program. We do no marketing, advertising or promoting of our website. Consumer's typically find it when they have received our brochure and a full presentation from a NERF Dealer. We do not want the website used to fully explain the program because that leaves too much room for mis-understanding. We expect, contractually demand, train and test our Dealers representatives to fully explain the program IN PERSON, provide literature, discuss slippage, provide Sample Voucher and explain the claim process at the time of estimate/sales presentation to the customer. Also, they are to complete the Consumer Checklist after explaining the program to ensure that the consumer understands the program. Further, this is all to be done at the beginning of their entire presentation, before they start explaining their own products and services. IF a consumer decides to purchase that day, they also sign the Accept/Decline Offer form which further states that they have received brochures, sample vouchers, etc., and agree to the terms and conditions. Don't you agree that this is a MUCH more reliable method of explaining and ensuring understanding by the consumer rather than HOPE that they understand the website and don't have a Trained and Tested representative there to answer and explain other questions in person?
First: The website is not designed to fully explain the program. It is there to help someone contact us for more information and provide a basic overview of the program. We do no marketing, advertising or promoting of our website. Consumer's typically find it when they have received our brochure and a full presentation from a NERF Dealer. We do not want the website used to fully explain the program because that leaves too much room for mis-understanding. We expect, contractually demand, train and test our Dealers representatives to fully explain the program IN PERSON, provide literature, discuss slippage, provide Sample Voucher and explain the claim process at the time of estimate/sales presentation to the customer. Also, they are to complete the Consumer Checklist after explaining the program to ensure that the consumer understands the program. Further, this is all to be done at the beginning of their entire presentation, before they start explaining their own products and services. IF a consumer decides to purchase that day, they also sign the Accept/Decline Offer form which further states that they have received brochures, sample vouchers, etc., and agree to the terms and conditions. Don't you agree that this is a MUCH more reliable method of explaining and ensuring understanding by the consumer rather than HOPE that they understand the website and don't have a Trained and Tested representative there to answer and explain other questions in person?
1. What is involved in the "claim up to $21,000.00 won't you?" talked about at http://www.nationalenergyrebates.com/program.html. What determines the cap? Could it be less, and why? Given that "there can be no way the fund is depleted and it is mathematically and financially sound", how could the individual not receive "up to 100%" of their rebate? (as referenced at http://www.nationalenergyrebates.com/faq.html)
The $21,000.00 refers to the fact that a consumer can get 3 vouchers in their lifetime and they are a maximum of $7,000.00/each......we ask if they would remember because that is an important element of any redemption program, flight fund miles, subway stamps, frequent filler gas discounts, etc.....you have to remember to claim. We have determined the cap on the number of vouchers and the amounts based on historical data, forecasted claim analysis and actual claim analysis. While we want the FREE incentive to be available and usable for a variety of products, we don't want people to start making a living off of the program as that would defeat the viability of the fund. A customer may do business with 3 different NERF vendors and receive varying amounts of rebate vouchers from each vendor. They get 3 vouchers, period. If the vouchers are less than the $7,000.00 max, they have limited their maximum available.
As far as up to 100% of face value, this refers to the "Shortfall" scenario. We place funds into the escrow account at the bank for each month. These are held in escrow and invested in Treasury Bills. Each voucher is a part of the Monthly Pool in which it was issued. All vouchers in a monthly pool are eligible to be paid out of the funds available in that monthly pool only, they can't be attached to the other 11 months. This protects the other monthly pools from ever being drawn out before the vouchers are redeemed. If the total value of claims in a pool exceeds what is in the pool, then the funds are paid to all valid claims on a pro rata basis. This means all claimants get something as a minimum and no claims end up being unpaid due to the funds being exhausted. We have NOT had a shortfall. We deposit funds, much like an insurance company, based on the forecasted claim rate. So far, we have had EXTRA funds from the monthly pools. The extra/unclaimed funds are rolled forward to the next month to be available to pay claims. The exception to that would be the Shortfall and Deferment scenario. If someone did not want to accept a pro rata payment for less than the face value, they are allowed to defer their claim until 100% is available. It would become available by using unclaimed funds from future pools. IF there were a deferred claim pending and we had unclaimed funds (as is normal to date) then instead of the unclaimed funds going forward to the next monthly pool, they are used first to pay a deferred claimant. Again, we have had no shortfalls and have no deferred claims to date. REMEMBER, any amount someone receives is all BONUS money. It is a FREE incentive program. Dealers are NOT allowed to charge for participation. So, if someone bought $10,000.00 worth of energy efficient improvements, they will get $10,000.00 worth of home improvements. If they claim properly, they could end up with $10,000.00 back in rebates and end up paying 0 for their improvements. If they only got back $3k, $4k or $6k, they are still way ahead! They are in a no lose situation!
2. Do you realize that sending in a form "after 47 months but before 48 months" (as set out at your webpage at http://www.nationalenergyrebates.com/instruct.html) is technically impossible?
Again, the website is not designed to fully explain the program. The voucher clearly explains the timeframe, the Dealer representative is obliged to explain the timeframe. Basically, they wait 47 months, then have a 30 day period (before the 48th month...) to send in their claim documents. Also, the 3rd party fund administrator sends them a REMINDER letter and this specifically identifies their 30 day period to ensure they are not confused. Basically, if you were issued a voucher today, 10-25-06, your claim period is figured by adding 4 years to the date and then backing up 30 days....so you would have from 9-25-10 to 10-25-10 to claim.
3. Why do you require the form to be sent via registered mail? Why not confirm receipt via e-mail or letter?
This is for the consumers protection. Registered mail is the highest and safest form of service. It does not get lost. It is signed for by each person who touches it every step of the way, so it is fully traceable and accountable. It does not go through the electronic sorter system. It is the method used to send cash, and this is why, because of the security. This then provides documented proof for the consumer of delivery. Even if they lost their return receipt, which is required to provide at time of claim, they can go online and print a new receipt by entering the registered mail identification number. Also, by having such solid and reliable proof, the consumer is not in a situation of the FA losing their registrations and then denying the claim because it was not delivered on time or ever registered at all. Emails and other electronic means are not reliable because of worms, virus', etc. The cost of sending a return letter would become cost prohibitive. So, the safest and most secure method that protects the consumer to the highest degree seems appropriate to me, don't you agree?
4. What are the details behind the "questionnaire" that one fills out to determine their eligibility?
The Consumer Checklist is attached. Again, it is really used to ensure that they understand the program. If they don't have full understanding, I don't consider them eligible! Anyone who purchases the approved products from an approved NERF dealer is potentially eligible. However, if they don't wish to participate in the program, they are allowed to Decline the offer. There is no cost savings or discount allowed because there was NO CHARGE to begin with. This form also is attached.
5. At http://www.nationalenergyrebates.com/instruct.html you refer to terms and conditions "below" yet, they are not posted on your web site. Where are they?
They are in the Sample Voucher which is provided at time of initial presentation. Further, the steps are explained by the representative.
Again, we do not feel that a website is appropriate to ensure complete understanding. Consumers may only participate when they have had a personal presentation and all documents, explanations and questions provided and answered to their total satisfaction. We know that it is to their total satisfaction because we have FOUR (4) forms that they sign and attest to the fact that they have been provided all information and understand and agree to the terms. Those are attached and identified as follows: Merchant Consumer Checklist, Merchant Accept/Decline Offer, Merchant Waiver/Receipt, the Live Voucher itself (a Sample Check provide PRIOR to purchase and then the LIVE voucher provided upon completion of the project that they SIGN and send in)
These are just a few of the questions that we have about your offer. But, frankly, any offer that gives a customer only 30 days (47 months hence) to claim the rebate suggests that you are counting upon customers to forget......and that, alone, is questionable.
Yes, we do count on consumers not claiming for a variety of reasons. We call this "Slippage", it is explained to the customer by the representative (a contractual obligation, part of the training and test) and is in our brochure and discussed on our website...such as ... "for up to $21,000.00, you will remember to claim, right?" We make no qualms about it and explain to customers that we do rely on Slippage. IT"S FREE, It's a huge BONUS. Just like your homeowners insurance or car insurance, the insurance company only charges you a small premium for what is being protected. This can only be done because not all insured clients will make a claim! The difference with us is, THIS IS A FREE incentive. The customer does not pay a premium like you do with insurance. So, if you don't claim, you don't lose anything. How much have you spent on insurance over your lifetime? How much have you collected? Since this is a FREE incentive and consumers can and do collect large amounts of money, what is questionable about that? ONLY 30 days? That seems MORE than ample time, especially with 4 years of planning and preparation, to go to the post office. Most every rebate in existence in all of time provides for no more than 30 days and most are less. If we said 3 days, I could see your point. I fail to see any issue whatsoever with an ENTIRE MONTH, really.
So, here is your start on those 5. And, much more.....please review carefully and please contact me for more information, documentation and clarification on any issues!
Thank you for taking the time to review our program. I have several documents I can fax if you provide a number. Like, a copy of the letter we get from the bank each month explaining the status, investment and how funds are released. Feel free to contact the bank to verify our escrow and how funds are released, the contact info is on the letterhead of the fax I can send.
We are working very hard to make a difference. We know that with thorough review by agencies such as yours and the BBB and with the participation of fine companies with excellent reputations, products and ethics that this Free Incentive program will gain widespread consumer participation, which is the only way we can make an effective impact in conservation! Substantial and Effective Consumer incentives are basically non-existent. The energy bill gave billions in incentives and protections to the providers, oil and gas companies, etc., but VERY little to consumers. We have to find a way to get consumers to participate. They are willing to spend more for higher efficiency products AND get more savings and value than if they had 'economized', because the free incentive program works! When they buy the more efficient, longer lasting products, they are making a wiser choice that saves them more money in the long run, ads greater value to their home and conserves America's resources. They have NOTHING to lose and a LOT to gain.
Regards,
Tim Stubbs
CEO/President
National Energy Rebates
Toll Free: 888-422-0606
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Rebate
I too have been scammed by the National Energy Rebate Fund. I am due a rebate of $10,650.00 and will not receive it. My wife and I got our new windows put in just because of NERF. Now, get this: My wife died four months after we had our windows put in so I sent a letter to the Fund Administrater (Susan Duran) to have my wife's voucher transferred to my name. I received a letter from her that stated in part: "The rebate Program works on the principal of "slippage." Slippage is a predictable event that occurs when people fail to comply with the terms and conditions necessary to redeem..." According to the letter death is considered slippage and therefore they won't transfer my wife's voucher to my name.
My wife died 44 dyas after getting sick so I'd like someone to tell me just how the hell that was predictable!!! I was going to send my wife's voucher in and demand the money but the website said I would probably get the vouchers back so what's the use. Anyway, I am out that money which was going to be used to pay off the windows.
newspaper article
I got stuck without my 4K also, did some poking around and found this article. time to file with the colorado AG office...
Grand Junction newspaper
Former Grand Junction man fined in energy-rebate probe
By Amy Hamilton
Tuesday, January 19, 2010
A former Grand Junction man has been fined a default judgment of $100,000 by the Colorado attorney general for defrauding costumers of rebates they were promised for purchasing energy-efficient housing materials.
Tim Stubbs, former owner of National Energy Rebate Fund, also will have to pay back the $4.2 million he collected from more than 14,000 customers through the company, the Attorney General’s Office said.
The judgment comes after Stubbs did not answer to a complaint filed June 12, 2009, that he violated the Colorado Consumers Protection Act.
According to the Attorney General’s Office, Stubbs persuaded consumers to purchase higher-priced housing items such as siding and roofing “by offering them false hopes that they have a fair opportunity to obtain a substantial rebate,” the complaint read.
Some $4.4 million remaining in an escrow account set up by Stubbs at Christina Bank will be turned over to the Colorado Department of Law and distributed to consumers according to their level of participation in the National Energy Rebate Fund program.
Stubbs placed $4.6 million in the account to pay consumers who participated in the program.
The department also will subtract costs of administering the money and legal fees. It also will be shared with consumers from Wisconsin who were some of the company’s victims, the judgment said.
Stubbs misrepresented the likelihood that customers would receive a rebate, the Attorney General’s Office said, and the terms and conditions of the agreement were not as easy to understand as Stubbs’ company purported them to be. Also, the office said, the scheme was not a way to promote energy efficiency, but a way for companies that Stubbs worked with to sell higher-priced items to customers.
4-wheeler rebate
We purchased a 4-wheeler from a company in Orifino, Idaho. At the time of purchase there was to be a 4,000.00 rebate after 47 months. I was told the company had problems someone else was taking it over and was given the Wisconsin # who advised me that they could not help us as we were not Wisconsin residents. Does anyone out there know who is handling the rebates from Idaho. We called the state said our only recourse was to file a complaint against the company who sold it to us. They're not the ones at fault. Can anyone help????
4 WHEELER REBATE
I live in washington state and bought two quads. One in September 2006 and one in January of 2007 From The Arctic Cat Dealer in Carson, WA. Which moved to Hood River, OR. Mailed off the first with ALL THE APPROPRIATE INFO Aug 17 and it was returned as udeliverable on Aug 26. I think getting ahold of the attorney generals office of Colorado is a must. Hard to believe people can cheat hard working folks for greed.
P. Sanford
4 wheeler rebate.
I also have a rebate coming for a Honda 4 wheeler purchase. This is out of utah. Sure would like to know
where to go next???
got scammed
I was scammed also sent in my paperwork as I was instructed, letter returned as undeliverable after 15 days. After reading all the statements I was totally suprised. If anyone has any suggestions as to what we can do please reply. I got a letter from Susan Duran telling me this was a reminder.
national energy rebate scheme
in may of 2005 we purchased a spa from Florence Hearth & Patio which we paid cash for. we sent in the first paper work when we were suppose to by registered mail and received our signed card back, it was signed by S. Duran. We waited and at the right time we sent in the rest of the paper work by registered mail to receive our $15,00.00 and it was returned to us as undeliverable and not forwardable. The phone number we have is also no longer any good. this whole nerf is nothing but a scam to cheat honest people out of money. we are contacting an attorney and will also enter a complaint with the attorney generals office in Oregon and will contact the attorney generals office in Colorado. There has to be a way to stop these crooks from cheating people and living high on the hog on our money.
It's a scam
My husband and I purchased a patio cover in 05 were did the paperwork perfectly and also received a letter from S. Duran. We waited and sent the paperwork registerd mail and received it back on Aug 15, 2009 as undeliverable and not forwardable. The phone number is disconnected. I guess from reading all the e-mails this is a scam and we need to ban together and find these people and get them to either pay all of us or get them thrown in jail. I too will contact the company we purchased it from and also the Attorney Generals in Colorado. Lets see what happens.
It MUST be a scam!!!!
We too sent our paperwork in exactly as we were supposed to. 2 weeks later, we received it back in the mail undeliverable and not forwardable. What's the deal? We waited 4 years to get our money back! Now I'm very upset about this! What are we supposed to do. Our 2 year reminder letter was signed by Susan Duran - anyone know her?
Windows of America of Portland, Inc.
Well, now it is March 2009. After spending $12.79 to send my claim to NERF I find out it doesn't exist. Not to mention waiting four f*^&ing years and doing everything perfecting to collect the rebate. Ha. Anyone have any new information?
Tim is living in Costa Rica
Tim is in a million dollar home in Nosara, Costa Rica. He tried to rent my house for a year and I googled him. I did hear he rented another house down there. Living the good life with your money.
It appears that you are not
It appears that you are not alone--I figured that this scheme was too good to be true! Where do we go from here? I just filed my claim and had my material returned to me.
File a claim online with the
File a claim online with the Colorado Attorney Generals office . We did and they called us and stated that they had gone to court and there will be some sort of money coming back. Probably not the whole amount but something. Will see...
Filing with the Colorado's Attorney Generals Office
I am too a victim of the rebate scam. I sent my paperwork to the Attorney General in Colorado back in October. Sent the papers via certified mail. Know the papers were received as they signed the card and I got it back. Otherwise, I have not heard anything from the Attorney General's office. Why do some people get a response and others don't?
Stubbs
I saw in a Vail newspaper posting that SOB Tim Stubbs was in Costa Rica or Panama. Why cant the Colorado AG sell his $700K house and pay us back? I'd give up my $5K just for the chance to kick his little ass!
NERF scam
I sent my paperwork by registered mail in October. I received the return receipt back, which was signed by Susan Duran, the same person who sent the 24 month reminder and their change-of -address. I waited 10 weeks, and after no response, I sent a certified letter requesting a response from them. The certified was returned to me as 'undeliverable, unable to forward'.
I filed a complaint with the Attorney General of Washington State, but their attempts to contact the company were also unsuccessful. If anyone knows a way to contact these people, please let us know. The Attorney General will proceed, if they can be found.
Same think
I am running into the same problem. I received my paperwork back shortly after sending with wrong address, I sent it to the address that Susan Duran sent I then sent it to the National Energy Rebate Fund, Inc. on the 15th and got on line today to check the registered letter number and found that it is also being returned for lack of correct address. I plan on going to my Attorney General as well in Oregon State. I don't know about you but I want my money!
National Energy Rebate Fund
Is there a class action lawsuit against NERF?
Also, does the merchant who sold me my windows have any liability in this matter? We were supposed to get an estimated $14,000 rebate in February 2010.
Where can we contact Tim Stubbs? Nerf's phone is disconnected and there e-mail no longer exists.
NERF
NERF is bankrupt and no longer in existance. Good luck, there's not much we can do from what I understand, at least at this point.
NERF Scam
I had the exact same problems. I did all the proper steps at all the proper times. Two letters ago to Susan Duran got me a reply that they were "having legal problems" and my rebate was due shortly. Followed that letter up with another and was returned by the Post Office. Where did they go? I also contacted the Washington AG and got the same response that they could not be found.
If anyone gets an address please post! Has anyone tried Small Claims Court? I was going to, but where would you serve the papers?
Help !
Stubbs
You can still contact brother MAtt Stubbs at the number listed,
NERF
Tim Stubbs home
265 Red Rim Dr
Grand Junction, CO 81507-1155
(970) 255-0619Type: Land Line
Provider: Qwest Corporation
Location: Grand Junction, CO
Matt Stubbs
404 Saddle Ct
Grand Junction, CO 81507-3309
(970) 245-3536Type: unavailable
Provider: unavailable
Location: unavailable
Incorporated by Matt Stubbs and Tim Stubbs, National Rebate Fund, Inc. is located at 3202 Snowberry Ct Grand Junction, CO 81506. National Rebate Fund, Inc. was incorporated on Monday, February 28, 2005 in the State of FL and is currently not active. Willis E. Stubbs represents National Rebate Fund, Inc. as their registered agent
Contact
Do you know if any one has made contact with Tim Stubbs or Matt Stubbs? I myself just had my paperwork sent back due to the lack of company existing in Grand Junction, CO. Was wondering if these two individuals are approachable or if I need to get the authorities involved.
NERF
I think I'd serve my contractor that got me into the program first with the promise of the voucher system.
Contractors also victims of NERF Scam
Is there a class action suit for the contractors who were also defrauded by Tim Stubbs and his NERF Scam. Contractors also believed in the rebate and have lost valuable customers and thousands of dollars because of that slime bag.
rebate check
I sent my rebate stubs in for my last rebate check, which we never got the first. When I sent it in registered mail, which they recieved because I got the return card. I waited for 12 weeks, then sent them a letter, guess what, the letter was returned with a no forwarding address label on it. They must have shut the doors and not told anyone. Sorry folks, they aren't there anymore.
NERF
Lynn, which address did you use? I have a letter saying they changed addresses in April of "05, the link of their web site says another one, so that makes a total of 3 different address i have.I can e-mail what i have if you. Which one address did you use?
nerf
I recieved a letter on how to file my rebate 10-2-2005. The address on the paper is
Fund Administrators, L.L.C.
2139 North 12th st. Unit 8
Grand Junction, CO. 81501
Reading everyones headaches is making me nervous Im due to send mine in sept. 09
Susan Duraw signed the letter.
Fund Administrator Grand Junction Colorado
We received a letter in May of 2005 changing the address to the same one you posted. Bought a hot tub in 2005 and sent in all of the appropriate paperwork over the years. Sent in to receive our rebate and the registered mail 6 Apr 09 and it was returned for bad addess.
address
I used the address they sent me saying they changed there address in 2005. I just think they closed up shop so they don't get caught.
National Energy Rebate Fund
Do you know if there's any way to get the money I've been promised. I submitted my parperwork in July for $42,000 for both my wife and me. In September, I talked to a lady that said I had to wait until the end of September. I called and left messages about 2 weeks ago and now I'm not getting any response. The phone number isn't working now.
The reason it isn't working
The reason it isn't working is because they closed up. My letter was returned with no forwarding address on it.
I to submitted my paperwork
I to submitted my paperwork in September for 7,000. I talked to a lady in October and she said I had to wait 6 to 8 weeks from November. I have not received any response and have also called the number and it is no longer in service. I think this rebate program is a scam.
Address
Tim leaves a phone # that no one will answer. How about an adress to this place.
Why is it so hard to find an address for Him. Is thier really such a company?
Scam Pellet stove
Once again lied to. I did everything the paper work told me to do, even a name and address change. Where did this information go? I was right on time and completed all paper work. Olny to get back my envelope saying it was an undeliverable address. This cost me $10.00 every time to send something registered mail. I am not rich witch is why I tryed this. NEVER Again!
This is a SCAM
$7,000.00 Owed
I am in Ohio waiting on a $7,000.00 rebate from a swimming pool purchase. Good luck, right? I can't believe I got taken on this. I used what I thought was a reputable dealer. Can't they be held responsible fo this? Everything, and I mean to the letter, was done perfectly on the paperwork for the rebate. It has been a few months now with nothing and I am getting ready to contact authorities to see what I can do. I cannot stand thieves. This rebate was a big part of our decision to make this purchase. I am retired (disability after 25 yrs. on job with arthritis) with teenagers at home and like most folks could use this money. Did I mention I hate thieves? This has to be stopped before others are sucked in.
Rebate
My husband bought fencing and decking through Mastergaurd Inc. which offered us the rebate. We sent in the check stub by the 17th day as stated by certified mail. At the 47th month we sent in all the paper work. We recieved a denied letter saying the order wasn't signed which it was and also we didn't have the certified return slip to prove we sent it in by the 17th day, and that we didn't send our check voucher in separately and certified. First off our work order was signed, and also, the certified return slip was destroyed in a flood, so how was we suppose to send it, and also our paperwork Was sent separatly, it may have been in one mailing envelope from UPS but the paperwork for each was in separate envelopes which had to be signed for, so we lost $13,000. Now I sent in our last check voucher which you will probably deny because We don't have the return slip showing we sent in the first one certified. If you keep records like you are suppose to, why would you ask for that anyway? When you sent the reminder letter, it had our check numbers on it. Is this another way of not paying up on the vouchers?
YES IT IS
This is a PERFECT example of how this company makes sending in all the BS paperwork an almost impossible task to ask consumers to do.
Sorry to hear that you are yet another victim to the SCAM!
In Arizona, $3,100 credit for Painting the House.
I will contact the attorney general and we need to file a lawsuit against this company or the owner. This scam was planned from the beginning. If you are from AZ as well please respond. The companies selling the rebate should be liable as well. The (Superior Painting) company is out of business as well. There are too many of us, we need to get something done against these people.
Superior Painting
They painted my house...and I am due a rebate this month...went to call them and found this blog....what a mess...I am owed $6000 that I was counting on. Let me know what you are doing and I will do it to.
Thanks
Jayne
NERF
I have read NERF's "terms and conditions" from top to bottom and also every post to date on this page (8/09/08). What sickens me more than the 'enterprising leeches' who came up with this scheme (I am educated Mr. Stubbs, you just can't confuse me) is the complicity of the merchants who offer it. One can only imagine how NERF markets this to merchants to make them think it is actually in their best interest as consumer-oriented businesses to offer this scheme. I received this ploy from New Windows For America in MN which is heavily advertised on the radio, and which brags about their service awards. Their salesman gave no details about NERF but emphasized the dollar figure AFTER the 'rebate', and did not inspire confidence in the company as a whole. After reading the terms and conditions later (I did not purchase anything) I was appalled by the shoddy practices outlined. Mr. Stubbs protests that the rebate is really a 'bonus', implying that consumers should be happy for whatever they get and even thank them! This is not the Soviet Union, Comrade - why don't you and your cronies get real jobs like the rest of us?
The local watchdog UCAN had to ask them to resubmit the vouchers
For all the hoopla from the non-believers, especially UCAN(from San Diego), they had to eat their words and beg NERF to allow a customer to resubmit their vouchers after UCAN had made the customer register late.
Wow, a consumer advocate that was admitting they were wrong, they had messed up the customers opportunity to participate in the NERF program? Unheard of! But thats exactly what happened.
Yet, they didn't believe in the NERF program, supposedly. I thought it was a scam UCAN? If it doesn't work, why did you request the customer have his vouchers accepted & registered after you had messed up this good guy?
So there you go! IT DOES WORK & UCAN KNOWS IT & ADMITTED IT WAS THEIR FAULT!
UCAN Did Not Eat Its Words
I wish that Lee's post was accurate. As a staff person, I did not admit I was wrong about the program and recently, UCAN has received 3 other complaints from seniors in the San Diego area who sent in the vouchers on the deadlines and cannot collect because they cannot reach anyone at NERF or Best Windows & Doors.
I tried to be impartial, fair, allow time to listen to all sides and that's what made the customer late by one day after a senior citizen brought in several pages of documents. This senior was sent to UCAN by an attorney from another agency who happened to be speaking at this senior event. Then I decided it's only fair to meet with the owner of Best Windows & Doors to listen to the program.
The bottom line is the owner of Best Windows and Doors and his manager suggested I write a letter to NERF explaining to the company that it took me time to go through all of the papers and the notes from the attorney and in turn, the Best Windows & Doors owner promised to call NERF on the customer's behalf. This letter is the focus of the twisted and untrue allegations stated above by obviously the owner or the manager who met with me.
Although I never knew anyone who got paid using the vouchers, I decided to trust the company until it actually proved itself unworthy of my trust. Well, both Best Windows & Doors and NERF have proven themselves unworthy of my trust.
Very recent experience with New Windows for America in MN & NERF
Unlike what has been stated by Tim Stubbs, the sales representative did NOT explain anything about NERF before beginning his sales pitch about the New Windows for America products. I am a very cynical and non-trusting person when it comes to sales people and certainly felt that after the sales pitch the rebate fell into the too good to be true category.
The windows we were considering cost approximately $21000 for 18 windows and 2 patio doors. After the 75% "rebate" the cost to us would be $4250 - a very good deal. Then I turned to the Internet to see what others had to say and found this web site.
There's one main question I would like Mr. Stubbs to answer: Why aren't the terms and conditions of the rebate (i.e. the fine print) fully explained on your web site? I do plan on emailing you for the terms and conditions but am really skeptical about your company since you are keeping the terms and conditions such a secret. The entire rebate scheme is dependent upon the fine print and you won't publish it or let people see it until they have purchase products from an affiliated dealer. That's laughable!
On the positive side - I am impressed that you have taken the time to address our questions and concerns on this forum.
Here's Tim On Camera ....He doesn't want to answer questions.
http://consumerist.com/tag/national-energy-rebate-fund/
Hi Everyone, So here's an investigation with Tim Stubbs. How foolish he looks.... Now he said because of this investigation people are not going to be able to claim for their rebates. How can you prove that someone was reminded by the media? I don't get it~
Tim --you look foolish!
Tim,
Why go all the trouble. I think you earned enough money scamming people. Perhaps just shut down your company. If your company was legit how come now promote it on television? Gebhardt gave you a great opportunity to promote your company so you can earn more money! Greed...How SHAMEFUL that an AMERICAN like you would take advantage of hard working citizens money.!.. OH YOU LOOK FOOLISH on the video YOU LOW LIFE BASTARD....
NERF
Tim puts his name behind his posts for all to see....but those that have a problem with NERF fail to put up thier full names or any name at all. Isn't this Internet thing a great invention, you can say anything about anybody no ramifacations, no responsibility........what if I posted as Anonymous and said that EVERY post so far has been from contractors that have not been allowed to be a part of NERF and that this is thier way of trying to get back.....would you believe this to be true because I posted it?? should you?? Maybe try talking direct to the parties involved, first, call Anonymous, then call NERF and talk to them.
More NERF Lawsuits and consumer complaints
http://consumerist.com/356907/national-energy-rebate-fund-scam
READ THIS!
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/mo_consumer_trust.html
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/edmonton/info/troubleshooter/story.html?i...
Just tried to go to their
Just tried to go to their website and it is no longer working..
Have these Scammers Finally cut and run?????