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national energy rebate scheme
in may of 2005 we purchased a spa from Florence Hearth & Patio which we paid cash for. we sent in the first paper work when we were suppose to by registered mail and received our signed card back, it was signed by S. Duran. We waited and at the right time we sent in the rest of the paper work by registered mail to receive our $15,00.00 and it was returned to us as undeliverable and not forwardable. The phone number we have is also no longer any good. this whole nerf is nothing but a scam to cheat honest people out of money. we are contacting an attorney and will also enter a complaint with the attorney generals office in Oregon and will contact the attorney generals office in Colorado. There has to be a way to stop these crooks from cheating people and living high on the hog on our money.
It's a scam
My husband and I purchased a patio cover in 05 were did the paperwork perfectly and also received a letter from S. Duran. We waited and sent the paperwork registerd mail and received it back on Aug 15, 2009 as undeliverable and not forwardable. The phone number is disconnected. I guess from reading all the e-mails this is a scam and we need to ban together and find these people and get them to either pay all of us or get them thrown in jail. I too will contact the company we purchased it from and also the Attorney Generals in Colorado. Lets see what happens.
Windows of America of Portland, Inc.
Well, now it is March 2009. After spending $12.79 to send my claim to NERF I find out it doesn't exist. Not to mention waiting four f*^&ing years and doing everything perfecting to collect the rebate. Ha. Anyone have any new information?
Tim is living in Costa Rica
Tim is in a million dollar home in Nosara, Costa Rica. He tried to rent my house for a year and I googled him. I did hear he rented another house down there. Living the good life with your money.
It appears that you are not
It appears that you are not alone--I figured that this scheme was too good to be true! Where do we go from here? I just filed my claim and had my material returned to me.
File a claim online with the
File a claim online with the Colorado Attorney Generals office . We did and they called us and stated that they had gone to court and there will be some sort of money coming back. Probably not the whole amount but something. Will see...
Stubbs
I saw in a Vail newspaper posting that SOB Tim Stubbs was in Costa Rica or Panama. Why cant the Colorado AG sell his $700K house and pay us back? I'd give up my $5K just for the chance to kick his little ass!
NERF scam
I sent my paperwork by registered mail in October. I received the return receipt back, which was signed by Susan Duran, the same person who sent the 24 month reminder and their change-of -address. I waited 10 weeks, and after no response, I sent a certified letter requesting a response from them. The certified was returned to me as 'undeliverable, unable to forward'.
I filed a complaint with the Attorney General of Washington State, but their attempts to contact the company were also unsuccessful. If anyone knows a way to contact these people, please let us know. The Attorney General will proceed, if they can be found.
Same think
I am running into the same problem. I received my paperwork back shortly after sending with wrong address, I sent it to the address that Susan Duran sent I then sent it to the National Energy Rebate Fund, Inc. on the 15th and got on line today to check the registered letter number and found that it is also being returned for lack of correct address. I plan on going to my Attorney General as well in Oregon State. I don't know about you but I want my money!
National Energy Rebate Fund
Is there a class action lawsuit against NERF?
Also, does the merchant who sold me my windows have any liability in this matter? We were supposed to get an estimated $14,000 rebate in February 2010.
Where can we contact Tim Stubbs? Nerf's phone is disconnected and there e-mail no longer exists.
NERF
NERF is bankrupt and no longer in existance. Good luck, there's not much we can do from what I understand, at least at this point.
NERF Scam
I had the exact same problems. I did all the proper steps at all the proper times. Two letters ago to Susan Duran got me a reply that they were "having legal problems" and my rebate was due shortly. Followed that letter up with another and was returned by the Post Office. Where did they go? I also contacted the Washington AG and got the same response that they could not be found.
If anyone gets an address please post! Has anyone tried Small Claims Court? I was going to, but where would you serve the papers?
Help !
NERF
Tim Stubbs home
265 Red Rim Dr
Grand Junction, CO 81507-1155
(970) 255-0619Type: Land Line
Provider: Qwest Corporation
Location: Grand Junction, CO
Matt Stubbs
404 Saddle Ct
Grand Junction, CO 81507-3309
(970) 245-3536Type: unavailable
Provider: unavailable
Location: unavailable
Incorporated by Matt Stubbs and Tim Stubbs, National Rebate Fund, Inc. is located at 3202 Snowberry Ct Grand Junction, CO 81506. National Rebate Fund, Inc. was incorporated on Monday, February 28, 2005 in the State of FL and is currently not active. Willis E. Stubbs represents National Rebate Fund, Inc. as their registered agent
Contact
Do you know if any one has made contact with Tim Stubbs or Matt Stubbs? I myself just had my paperwork sent back due to the lack of company existing in Grand Junction, CO. Was wondering if these two individuals are approachable or if I need to get the authorities involved.
NERF
I think I'd serve my contractor that got me into the program first with the promise of the voucher system.
rebate check
I sent my rebate stubs in for my last rebate check, which we never got the first. When I sent it in registered mail, which they recieved because I got the return card. I waited for 12 weeks, then sent them a letter, guess what, the letter was returned with a no forwarding address label on it. They must have shut the doors and not told anyone. Sorry folks, they aren't there anymore.
NERF
Lynn, which address did you use? I have a letter saying they changed addresses in April of "05, the link of their web site says another one, so that makes a total of 3 different address i have.I can e-mail what i have if you. Which one address did you use?
nerf
I recieved a letter on how to file my rebate 10-2-2005. The address on the paper is
Fund Administrators, L.L.C.
2139 North 12th st. Unit 8
Grand Junction, CO. 81501
Reading everyones headaches is making me nervous Im due to send mine in sept. 09
Susan Duraw signed the letter.
Fund Administrator Grand Junction Colorado
We received a letter in May of 2005 changing the address to the same one you posted. Bought a hot tub in 2005 and sent in all of the appropriate paperwork over the years. Sent in to receive our rebate and the registered mail 6 Apr 09 and it was returned for bad addess.
address
I used the address they sent me saying they changed there address in 2005. I just think they closed up shop so they don't get caught.
National Energy Rebate Fund
Do you know if there's any way to get the money I've been promised. I submitted my parperwork in July for $42,000 for both my wife and me. In September, I talked to a lady that said I had to wait until the end of September. I called and left messages about 2 weeks ago and now I'm not getting any response. The phone number isn't working now.
The reason it isn't working
The reason it isn't working is because they closed up. My letter was returned with no forwarding address on it.
I to submitted my paperwork
I to submitted my paperwork in September for 7,000. I talked to a lady in October and she said I had to wait 6 to 8 weeks from November. I have not received any response and have also called the number and it is no longer in service. I think this rebate program is a scam.
Address
Tim leaves a phone # that no one will answer. How about an adress to this place.
Why is it so hard to find an address for Him. Is thier really such a company?
Scam Pellet stove
Once again lied to. I did everything the paper work told me to do, even a name and address change. Where did this information go? I was right on time and completed all paper work. Olny to get back my envelope saying it was an undeliverable address. This cost me $10.00 every time to send something registered mail. I am not rich witch is why I tryed this. NEVER Again!
This is a SCAM
$7,000.00 Owed
I am in Ohio waiting on a $7,000.00 rebate from a swimming pool purchase. Good luck, right? I can't believe I got taken on this. I used what I thought was a reputable dealer. Can't they be held responsible fo this? Everything, and I mean to the letter, was done perfectly on the paperwork for the rebate. It has been a few months now with nothing and I am getting ready to contact authorities to see what I can do. I cannot stand thieves. This rebate was a big part of our decision to make this purchase. I am retired (disability after 25 yrs. on job with arthritis) with teenagers at home and like most folks could use this money. Did I mention I hate thieves? This has to be stopped before others are sucked in.
Rebate
My husband bought fencing and decking through Mastergaurd Inc. which offered us the rebate. We sent in the check stub by the 17th day as stated by certified mail. At the 47th month we sent in all the paper work. We recieved a denied letter saying the order wasn't signed which it was and also we didn't have the certified return slip to prove we sent it in by the 17th day, and that we didn't send our check voucher in separately and certified. First off our work order was signed, and also, the certified return slip was destroyed in a flood, so how was we suppose to send it, and also our paperwork Was sent separatly, it may have been in one mailing envelope from UPS but the paperwork for each was in separate envelopes which had to be signed for, so we lost $13,000. Now I sent in our last check voucher which you will probably deny because We don't have the return slip showing we sent in the first one certified. If you keep records like you are suppose to, why would you ask for that anyway? When you sent the reminder letter, it had our check numbers on it. Is this another way of not paying up on the vouchers?
YES IT IS
This is a PERFECT example of how this company makes sending in all the BS paperwork an almost impossible task to ask consumers to do.
Sorry to hear that you are yet another victim to the SCAM!
In Arizona, $3,100 credit for Painting the House.
I will contact the attorney general and we need to file a lawsuit against this company or the owner. This scam was planned from the beginning. If you are from AZ as well please respond. The companies selling the rebate should be liable as well. The (Superior Painting) company is out of business as well. There are too many of us, we need to get something done against these people.
Superior Painting
They painted my house...and I am due a rebate this month...went to call them and found this blog....what a mess...I am owed $6000 that I was counting on. Let me know what you are doing and I will do it to.
Thanks
Jayne
NERF
I have read NERF's "terms and conditions" from top to bottom and also every post to date on this page (8/09/08). What sickens me more than the 'enterprising leeches' who came up with this scheme (I am educated Mr. Stubbs, you just can't confuse me) is the complicity of the merchants who offer it. One can only imagine how NERF markets this to merchants to make them think it is actually in their best interest as consumer-oriented businesses to offer this scheme. I received this ploy from New Windows For America in MN which is heavily advertised on the radio, and which brags about their service awards. Their salesman gave no details about NERF but emphasized the dollar figure AFTER the 'rebate', and did not inspire confidence in the company as a whole. After reading the terms and conditions later (I did not purchase anything) I was appalled by the shoddy practices outlined. Mr. Stubbs protests that the rebate is really a 'bonus', implying that consumers should be happy for whatever they get and even thank them! This is not the Soviet Union, Comrade - why don't you and your cronies get real jobs like the rest of us?
The local watchdog UCAN had to ask them to resubmit the vouchers
For all the hoopla from the non-believers, especially UCAN(from San Diego), they had to eat their words and beg NERF to allow a customer to resubmit their vouchers after UCAN had made the customer register late.
Wow, a consumer advocate that was admitting they were wrong, they had messed up the customers opportunity to participate in the NERF program? Unheard of! But thats exactly what happened.
Yet, they didn't believe in the NERF program, supposedly. I thought it was a scam UCAN? If it doesn't work, why did you request the customer have his vouchers accepted & registered after you had messed up this good guy?
So there you go! IT DOES WORK & UCAN KNOWS IT & ADMITTED IT WAS THEIR FAULT!
UCAN Did Not Eat Its Words
I wish that Lee's post was accurate. As a staff person, I did not admit I was wrong about the program and recently, UCAN has received 3 other complaints from seniors in the San Diego area who sent in the vouchers on the deadlines and cannot collect because they cannot reach anyone at NERF or Best Windows & Doors.
I tried to be impartial, fair, allow time to listen to all sides and that's what made the customer late by one day after a senior citizen brought in several pages of documents. This senior was sent to UCAN by an attorney from another agency who happened to be speaking at this senior event. Then I decided it's only fair to meet with the owner of Best Windows & Doors to listen to the program.
The bottom line is the owner of Best Windows and Doors and his manager suggested I write a letter to NERF explaining to the company that it took me time to go through all of the papers and the notes from the attorney and in turn, the Best Windows & Doors owner promised to call NERF on the customer's behalf. This letter is the focus of the twisted and untrue allegations stated above by obviously the owner or the manager who met with me.
Although I never knew anyone who got paid using the vouchers, I decided to trust the company until it actually proved itself unworthy of my trust. Well, both Best Windows & Doors and NERF have proven themselves unworthy of my trust.
Very recent experience with New Windows for America in MN & NERF
Unlike what has been stated by Tim Stubbs, the sales representative did NOT explain anything about NERF before beginning his sales pitch about the New Windows for America products. I am a very cynical and non-trusting person when it comes to sales people and certainly felt that after the sales pitch the rebate fell into the too good to be true category.
The windows we were considering cost approximately $21000 for 18 windows and 2 patio doors. After the 75% "rebate" the cost to us would be $4250 - a very good deal. Then I turned to the Internet to see what others had to say and found this web site.
There's one main question I would like Mr. Stubbs to answer: Why aren't the terms and conditions of the rebate (i.e. the fine print) fully explained on your web site? I do plan on emailing you for the terms and conditions but am really skeptical about your company since you are keeping the terms and conditions such a secret. The entire rebate scheme is dependent upon the fine print and you won't publish it or let people see it until they have purchase products from an affiliated dealer. That's laughable!
On the positive side - I am impressed that you have taken the time to address our questions and concerns on this forum.
Here's Tim On Camera ....He doesn't want to answer questions.
http://consumerist.com/tag/national-energy-rebate-fund/
Hi Everyone, So here's an investigation with Tim Stubbs. How foolish he looks.... Now he said because of this investigation people are not going to be able to claim for their rebates. How can you prove that someone was reminded by the media? I don't get it~
Tim --you look foolish!
Tim,
Why go all the trouble. I think you earned enough money scamming people. Perhaps just shut down your company. If your company was legit how come now promote it on television? Gebhardt gave you a great opportunity to promote your company so you can earn more money! Greed...How SHAMEFUL that an AMERICAN like you would take advantage of hard working citizens money.!.. OH YOU LOOK FOOLISH on the video YOU LOW LIFE BASTARD....
NERF
Tim puts his name behind his posts for all to see....but those that have a problem with NERF fail to put up thier full names or any name at all. Isn't this Internet thing a great invention, you can say anything about anybody no ramifacations, no responsibility........what if I posted as Anonymous and said that EVERY post so far has been from contractors that have not been allowed to be a part of NERF and that this is thier way of trying to get back.....would you believe this to be true because I posted it?? should you?? Maybe try talking direct to the parties involved, first, call Anonymous, then call NERF and talk to them.
More NERF Lawsuits and consumer complaints
http://consumerist.com/356907/national-energy-rebate-fund-scam
READ THIS!
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/mo_consumer_trust.html
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/edmonton/info/troubleshooter/story.html?i...
Just tried to go to their
Just tried to go to their website and it is no longer working..
Have these Scammers Finally cut and run?????
time will tell
It Looks like this company is about to get pinched. With an attorney General filing suit, it usually means they have done their homework about the deception in the business practices. Attorney Generals dont file Frivilous suits against people!!!!
Tim Stubbs, You mention paying out 26 valid claims to date... Can you, or are you willing to disclose how many vouchers were originally issued? Then, can you or will you disclose how many people sent in for their rebate checks, that were dis-qualified in their attempt to claim their rebate?
I fully agree with the fact that their will be slippage, but lets just see the numbers.
I have a feeling this information will not be made available, except MAYBE in the court case that has been filed..
I see there being two different loser groups here.
1) the customer who will never see their rebate $$
2) the businesses that were dooped by the NFR or NREF and offer the rebates. Because in the end those businesses are going to be the ones who get the bad publicity and are going to be left to answer to the consumers that are left with nothing....
I agree with what you have
I agree with what you have said except for the part about the "innocent" businesses that were "dooped" by NREF.
I asked NERF for details about their rebate program almost a year ago - because it sounded to good to be true - and decided that it was not an honest program and not to pursue it. The amount of money they wanted for those vouchers was so high, the only way you could cost-justify it was by inflating the price you were going to charge your customers to cover the voucher cost.
I believe that the only businesses that offered this program did so knowing that they would be charging an inflated cost to cover the voucher cost and then lying to their customers by claiming that it wasn't costing them anything. I believe that when this house of cards collapses, the businesses that particpated in the this program - and are held jointly liable for the deception - will be getting what they deserve.
National Energy Rebate
To Whom It May Concern,
I had many of the same concerns about ever receiving my rebate for $5,900.00 but I followed the steps to the letter, filed my claim and waited the four year. In December 2007, I completed the necessary paperwork and received my rebate as advertised.
If someone's complaining out there it's because they couldn't follow simple directions! I'm laughing all the way to the bank!
Great job Dan! Wow your
Great job Dan! Wow your posting sounds like you work for NERF that wrote their own testimonials just like every sketchy company.
SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!.....
SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!..... NO WAY!... MAYBE YOUR THE ONE OUT OF $5000 PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY GOT IT.
Rejecting Emails
I just tried to contact the NRF people thru their websites listed email and contact address.
Looks like they are no longer accepting emails...
Looks like troubled times are upon NRF and those of us holding Rebates.....
NERF has just been sued by Wisconsin Atty. General
Colorado Operators Of National Energy Rebate Fund Being Sued By Wisconsin For Deceptive Marketing Practices
Thu, 10/04/2007 - 09:08 — admin
Department of Justice Adds Defendants To Lawsuit Against Dane County Window Retailer Accused of Using Misleading “100% Rebate” Scheme to Sell Its Window Products
October 3, 2007 -- MADISON — Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen announced today that his office has expanded a consumer protection lawsuit to include a Colorado company, National Rebate Fund, Inc. The state’s original action, filed in June 2007 in Dane County Circuit Court, was brought against Kool View Co., Inc., of McFarland, Wisconsin, and alleged that Kool View used misleading representations in its marketing of “100% rebates” from the purchase of windows and other products, ostensibly tied to a participation in an “energy field study.” After the state brought its action, Kool View agreed to stop marketing the “NERF” rebates.
According to the state’s complaint, National Rebate Fund, Inc. offers rebates to consumers through its program known as the National Energy Rebate Fund, or NERF. The lawsuit alleges that Kool View and the National Rebate Fund, Inc. have engaged in deceptive marketing of the NERF rebate program. Among the defendants’ representations that the state alleges are false, deceptive or misleading include:
1. That sufficient funds are set aside to pay rebate claims;
2. That the escrowed rebate funds are invested and mature during the four-year waiting period before consumers can claim their rebates;
3. That the rebate program is tied to participation in an “energy field study;”
4. That the rebates are funded by the savings generated from the reduction in traditional media advertising by the participating merchants;
5. That the rebates are similar to typical consumer rebates, or to insurance policies;
6. That the rebate payments are handled by an unbiased, independent third-party company;
7. That the rebates are limited to the first 100 customers, or are being offered only for a limited time.
According to the complaint, since 2005, Kool View customers have received NERF rebate vouchers totaling over three million dollars. These vouchers have been represented to be redeemable four years after issuance. On average, Kool View rebate customers hold vouchers with a face value of approximately $15,000, with some consumers holding rebate vouchers exceeding $40,000. However, the rebate fund contains at most only 8% of the amount required to redeem the entire rebate vouchers issued.
In addition to adding National Rebate Fund, Inc. as a defendant, the amended complaint adds as defendants to the suit the owner of National Rebate Fund, Inc., Timothy Stubbs, and two other key employees of the company, Dan Golden and Matthew Stubbs. The three individual defendants all reside in Grand Junction, Colorado, which is also where National Rebate Fund, Inc., is located.
The amended complaint also names as a defendant Alan Anderson, the owner of Kool View Co., Inc., who resides in Madison, Wisconsin.
The case was investigated and referred to the Department of Justice by the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection. In its suit the state seeks an injunction prohibiting the defendants from further marketing of the rebate program, as well as forfeitures for violations of Wisconsin consumer protection laws and restitution for injured Wisconsin consumers.
The suit has been assigned to Dane County Circuit Court Judge Steven Ebert. The State is being represented by Assistant Attorneys General Lara Sutherlin and John Greene.
Source: Wisconsin Attorney General
Innocent until PROVEN guilty....
While we do everything we can to ensure that Dealers operate the program according to our strict guidelines and Dealer Agreement, we can not entirely control a 3rd party who may do things we are unaware of. When we became aware of the misconduct of the dealer, which violated our contract and guidelines, they were notified of the Default and removed from the program. The dealer was sued by the State for the same violations and then we were dragged along at a later date. We will answer the "allegations" and we will demonstrate that what NERF has represented is truthful. Please await the outcome of the case before making false assumptions. Naturally, this is more complicated than a forum of this nature would allow to address fully, that will be done in the proper manner.
what?
What did they do that voilated the agreement? From what I read in teh Wisconsin Attney Gen.s statement, they are looking at the verbage in your Customer Rebate thats the cause for problems... care to elaborate?
Please ! Remembert - nothing in life is FREE !!!!
ANYTIME !! ANYONE ! tells me This is FREE !! Then I know it must be a Dam LIE !!
I hope someone Sues the Hell out or NERF and any Company that is connected to NERF !
I really HATE SCAMS and as soon as I looked at the NERF Website ,, I knew in my Hear they were SCAMING People .
It would Tickle me to death if Some Aging Senior Citizen went to that Company and Shot Everyone that works there and I would give the Guy a MEDAL !!
I see Secure Roofing here in San Diego riding around in their Cars and Trucks Advertising the FREE ROOFING Scam Because that Dealer is associated with NERF and their SCAMS !
And I'm Sure that sooner or Later someone will take them to COURT and Fry their Ass real Good and I hope I get on that JURY so I can Award the Biggest Fine in History !!