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Top 10 Auto Scams
Welcome to UCAN's auto scam page! Don't forget to "Ask Hal" if you have any auto fraud related questions. He's one of the top auto fraud attorneys in California, and he will respond to your inquiries FREE of CHARGE. Questions will be answered based on California law and general legal principles.
Submit your Auto Fraud experience here.
Scam 1. Negative Equity/Trade-In Overestimation
This arises in a transaction that includes a trade-in vehicle when more is owed on the trade-in vehicle than the actual cash value of the vehicle. Generally, a customer is led to believe that the dealership is valuing the trade-in vehicle at the same amount as what is owed (thus the customer won't owe anything on the trade-in.) In reality, the secret actual cash value (the value the dealership is really giving the trade-in) is less than the amount owed. The difference is added to the cash price of the new vehicle (or the capitalization costs of a leased vehicle.) By inflating the cash price or cap costs of the vehicle, you the customer are illegally paying more in sales tax and registration. The dealership may also be violating the laws related to selling a vehicle for the advertised price (a dealership may not sell for more than advertised price.) A similar illegal practice may occur when a lease balance is paid off. These are still illegal practices even when the customer is told what is happening.
Scam 2. Packing (inflated monthly payments)
In a packing case, the customer is quoted an inflated monthly payment. Once the customer accepts the monthly payment amount, the dealership adds accessories (alarms, service contracts, GAP insurance, paint/fabric protection, window etching, low jack, etc.) in order to reach the inflated monthly amount. The customer does not realize that the accessories are optional nor that they are paying extra for the accessories (they are led to believe the accessories are included with vehicle or not told at all.)
Scam 3. Rewritten Contracts/Backdating
Often a customer will not qualify for financing upon the terms on the first contract. The customer may be required to increase a down payment, higher APR, etc. in order to qualify for a loan. The dealership has the customer come to sign a second contract with the different terms but backdates the second contract with the date of the first contract. This affects the finance disclosure laws in that the customer is being charged interest for a time period in which the contract is not yet in effect, etc. In addition to making a material misrepresentation regarding when the customer takes the obligation of the new contract, a backdated contract often also violates the single document rule (explained below) because another form (usually called Acknowledgment of Rewritten Contract) has the actual date when the contract was signed. Further, many customers are not told that they do not have to sign a second contract, instead they can choose to cancel the contract and return the new vehicle and have the down payment and trade in vehicle refunded. Finally, a dealership only has 10 days to tell you they want to make changes to the contract or cancel the contract. After the 10 days, the dealership cannot change the deal.
Scam 4. "Gotta Put It All in One Document" Rule
The law provides that all obligations of both parties must be contained in a single document (this explains why purchase agreement are so long in the automobile industry.) Often, dealerships will have customers sign other documents, such as trade in forms that state that the customer agrees to pay any difference between the trade in value and pay off of a trade in vehicle if it is different than the amount on the purchase agreement (and any associated attorney fees). Or, the dealership will agree to make payments on a trade-in vehicle but not include the trade-in vehicle in the purchase agreement. Another example is a "hold check agreement" (see below) in which the customer agrees to pay additional money towards the down payment on a later date. These documents violate the one document rule.
Scam 5. The Deferred Down Payment Scam
Many customers are unable to pay the entire down payment at the time the purchase contract is signed. Dealerships will allow customers to make down payments in payments (called deferred down payments). The code recognizes these types of payments and requires that deferred down payments be itemized, including the amount and date due for the deferred down payments. However, rather than disclosing deferred down payments are required by the code, dealerships will have customers write checks for the deferred down payments and then agree not the deposit the checks until an agreed upon date. As part of this transaction, customers are made to sign a hold check agreements that states what date the checks will be cashed and also have additional provisions regarding any returned checks, thus creating obligations that are not included in the single document (purchase agreement.)
Scam 6. Changes to the Advertised Price
The law states that a dealership cannot sell a vehicle for more than the advertised price (even if the customer is unaware of the advertised price.) What is an advertisement is broadly defined to include window stickers as well as the usual media ads. If a dealer inflates the cash price of vehicle to include the would, in practice, result in selling a vehicle for higher than the advertised price. (Which in addition affects the amount the customer is charged for taxes, licensing & registration fees and finance charges.)
Scam 7. Using Your Language Against You
Civil Code §1632 provides that if a lease/purchase of a vehicle, is primarily negotiated in Spanish, then a Spanish translation of the contract must be provided to the customer prior to signing the English language contract. This law was recently expanded to include Chinese, Vietnamese, Tagalog and Korean. Failure to comply gives the customer right to rescind.
Scam 8. The Whole Truth About Used Cars
Dealerships are required to disclose material known facts about a used vehicle such as if the vehicle was:
- involved in a prior accident (that caused substantial damage)
- it was a prior rental vehicle
- a lemon law buy back (the vehicle was repurchased by either manufacturer or dealer under the lemon law because of a defect)
- odometer readings not accurate, etc.
They are also prohibited from misrepresenting facts about the vehicle's history (such as its never been in an accident, it was a trade vehicle (when it was a rental), etc.
Scam 9. So is it New or is it Used?
The law requires that a dealership describe the vehicle being purchased as either "new" or "used". A used vehicle also includes a "demo" or demonstrator vehicle (vehicle used by manufacturer or dealership representatives) but often the contract will state the vehicle is "new." Also, some vehicles were previously sold but for some reason returned (usually because the failure to obtain financing) and this vehicle may also be used but is listed as new.
Scam 10. "Certified" Used Vehicles
Several manufacturers and some dealerships have "certified" used vehicle programs. Generally, a used vehicle that passes certain standards is labeled "certified used" and is suppose to guarantee to the customer that the used vehicle is in good working order and free from major structural damage (including prior accidents.) However, a lot of vehicles that don't actually qualify as "certified" under the standards advertised are being labeled certified. Customers are ending up with certified vehicles with frame damage from prior accidents.
Hal Rosner is the founding partner of Rosner and Mansfield, a leading California law firm specializing in auto fraud. Hal has been gracious enough to offer his help to UCAN.org users free of charge. CONTACT HAL
If you suspect that you have been the victim of auto fraud, or just have a general question, post a comment for Hal using the link below and his response will appear beneath your post on this page. You MUST include the following information:
- First Name
- State
Just bought a car, advertised cheaper on internet!
Hi,
I just bought a used Saturn Relay at what I thought was a resonable $15,000.00 today. Well, stupid me comes home to pull up a picture to email it to my sister, and finds it advertised at autotrader from the car dealership at $12,000.00. So, what can I do? Can I go back and return it , is it really illegal to sell at higher than advertised price? I like the vehicle, but feel like such an idiot, is there anything I can do?
CPO in an accident
Hi Hal,
I recently purchased a CPO BMW 645 from HERB CHAMBERS BMW in MA. The dealer stated the car was a CPO and never been in an accident. I took it to my dealer in NY because I was experiencing wheel shaking when the car reached 70mph or more. When I took it to BMW in NY they stated that they had notes on the computer that the car had been in an severe accident and the front was damaged. I asked the dealer how could the car pass the BMW CPO inspection if it was hit that bad and the dealer stated he had no idea how this could have happened. It was never disclosed to me that the car was hit is there any law or rule that can help me in this situation? What should I do? PLease Help
Thanks
Bucko
Certified Pre Owned Wreck
Certified PreOwned is a big scam. Some of the worst cars for sale are labeled certified preowned. They very commonly have been involved in previous undisclosed accidents.
The accident is grounds to return the vehicle. To steal a line from Hal, use naca.net to find an attorney in MA to represent you in this matter.
Fraud?
Back in August I traded a 2004 Hummer (H2) for a 2004 Dodge Ram Pickup. I was given three bills of sale all with different dollar amounts throughout the contract (I sighed all three) I also have three lein holder agreements each for the amounts shown on the bills of sale and all dated the same day. The three copies I have are not signed however, the finance company has one that is. I also signed two papers stating I would like Gap and an extended warranty. I recieved a lien holder one month after the purchase and was financed at 18%, yes, thats right 18%. Two lien holder agreements said 11% and one said 18% (you must read the fine print.) Of course the finance company took the one that said 18%. However, that particular lien holder agreement did not include the gap or the extended warranty that I signed up for (the other two did) so I did not recieve the service I requested. Basically it was the least amount of money borrowed at the highest interest rate. I was under the impression that I was signing one contract, not three. Sneaky, Sneaky. To me this seems a very suspicious practice. I would appreciate any insight or advice. No one I have talked to have heard of this before. I am interested to know if this is common practice.
Thank you for any input.
Graham
Three contracts
Gosh Graham, were you working on your autograph signing that day? This is quite a place to be stuck in. I have never heard of this either, but I think that there is a loop hole you are going to be able to squeeze out of this one on.
Were all of these contracts actually signed the same day? Back dating a bill of sale is illegal and illegal activities on a contract void it out.
If they were all signed on the same day, the dealership is going to say that the first two contracts were actually denied by the bank, that they were within their rights to cancel, and that the last contract was the one the bank accepted.
I would wait to see how Hal can spin it for you. As I said, I have never heard of this before.
Dealer has not paid off Trade In as agreed up in Contract
We have recently purchased a 2006 Cadillac STS from a used car dealership in Montclair, CA. We traded in our 1997 Jaguar XK8 for the amount of $7500.00. We owed around $15,000, so the additional amount was added to the amount that we owe now on our new car, the Cadillac. We have received our new loan information from our new lender, Wachovia, but when we have called to check to see if they have paid off our Jaguar with Capital one, they have not. It has been 16 days since we have purchased our new car. Can you tell me if they are breaking any laws and also what is the time frame that a dealership has to payoff a trade in vehicle? My payment is now due on my Jaguar and I do not want this to affect my credit! Thank you for your help!
The dealership will submit a
The dealership will submit a payoff on your trade in once they receive payment from Wachovia for the new auto that you purchased. You may try contacting the dealer to see when their contract clerk submitted a check to Cap 1; it is a possibility it has just yet to post to Cap 1's automated system.
redundant
This redundant and honestly not that helpful. While you wait around and get lied to by the dealership, your other loan becomes late and you lose 40 points on your credit score. Delinquent accounts are a huge factor to your fico score.
Wachovia has a laundry list of things the dealership must do before payment is sent. This list includes putting the lender as a lien holder on the vehicle registration. That is a 6 week process if the DMV has nothing else to do.
The dealership must include paystubs submitted by the borrower that the lender must then confirm. The dealership must include all of the options the vehicle has included on it on a specific check list sheet, as well as inform the lender of the true actual mileage.
There are so many things the dealership must submit to DMV and the lender that the borrower never realises. The check from Wachovia could take 2 months to get.
But go ahead and inform Capital One you have traded in the vehicle and balance two car payments for an unspecified amount of time to find out if they just haven't updated their systems yet. I particularly wouldn't suggest that road though...
Payment due, Make it
There are no laws saying when a dealership has to pay off a trade in loan. In many cases, it takes up to 6 weeks. The responsibility for that loan is still yours until the dealership pays off the amount owed.
Rest assured though that any payments made to the capital one account will be refunded to you once the dealership does pay off the loan.
Here is what you can do though.
First, contact Capital One and request a deferment for unexpected circumstances. Since you still have not made your first payment on the new car, I would not inform Capital one that you traded the vehicle in for two reasons.
The first is that deals fall through all the time and if this deal is not completed, Capital One is still your lender.
The second is because a lender will not defer payments if you have traded the vehicle in.
This will keep your account in good standing while you wait for the dealership to finish the pay off. The amount of the ten day payoff is listed in the auction. The dealership is responsible for any interest beyond that period.
Paint Delamination Problem with the Jaguar 2001
Hal,
I appreciate your quick follow up and Matt's and others inputs.
You mentioned that you heard there is a Class Action suit and possible Paint Repair Recall from Ford/Jaguar but did not have much details on it.
Is there a website resource or location that I can contact to find out info on this Class Action/Paint Recall issue wirh Jaguar?
I have tried googling and web crawling in various ways to see if I could get any hits on this, but so far to no avail. The Ford/Jaguar Company site did not list any recall details on 2001 era Bronze Colored Jaguar S Types.
Truly appreciate all your great support.
Regards, John K.
Class action suit
I researched your question about the class action suit and found that while there is a case pending, as of right now it is only including years 1990-1997. This is when the auto industry switched painting procedures and as a result, many failures are occuring.
If there is proof however that newer years were affected, they will be included as well.
This is the firm that is filing the class action suit against ford, gm, and chrysler.
http://www.freedweiss.com/
Perhaps contacting them could start you in the right direction unless Hal is able to provide you with more indepth details. Good luck
Matt
addtional to previous comment..
This is addition to last comment I placed on car deal still not done after 33 days, we live in Oregon, (Forgot to add state).
Car deal falls through after 33 days, is this legal?
I bought a car 4/12 and signed the initial documents, the car dealership called after one week to re-sign the documents stating they got a better rate for me. After two weeks they called me back in and stated the lender they were working with will not complete the car deal with me. It has been 33 days today and they now want more money down another $1,500 inclusive of previous $1K (USD). Or they say I should take my down payment and trade in car since the deal wont go through. Can they do this???
Did they notify you with a
Did they notify you with a certified right to rescind the contract within 10 days of purchase?
Cancellation of Contract
They are within their rights to cancel the contract only if on the back of the retail installment sale contract, (typically lower right corner) there is a seller's right to cancel.
They exercised this right within ten days by notifying you within one week. However, when you signed the new contract, that time frame restarts from the date of the contract.
Waiting 14 days is beyond the time frame allowed for cancellation.
Here are the catches. If you can show the dealership did not cancel the contract within ten days of signing the second contract, you can keep the car and make the scheduled payments to the dealership. They are considered by the law to be your bank. Which means the date on the contract is when your first payment is due.
Now, if the dealership sent a letter, made a phone call that went unanswered, etc. within those ten days, that is considered a cancellation.
My suggestion is that if you are credit worthy take the trade in back as well as the down payment and return the vehicle. Making payments to the dealership does not appear on your credit report and won't assist your financial stability in any way.
However, if you have challenged credit in which financing is difficult to obtain, contact the dealership and inform them that you are aware of the Seller's Right to Cancel policy. Their intent to cancel has expired and as a result, you will be making payments to the dealership each month on the scheduled date.
Good Luck.
addition
Myname is Ann and we live in Oregon. Thank you
Vehicle Damage Disclosure
2 years ago we bought a car with a clear CAR-FAX. We went to trade it in and on a different report it came up with "uni-body" damage. The car was in a wreck and piece of the frame was removed. The dealer bought it at auction 7 days prior to us purchasing it -- and at auction it was disclosed "uni-body" damage. Is he required to tell us? We found out because we were going to trade it in and they said due to significant structural damage they could not give us anything close to the blue book value.
Illegal Contract?
I purchased an older vehicle from a dealership in Wisconsin. They are a dealership but they did some sort of their own financing and were charging me almost 19% interest
Now I am learning that they have not been reporting to any credit agency
I feel that all the payements were made and also the 48 months were up in January 2007 they had me still making payments into June of 2007 when I went to buy a new vehicle from another dealership the financers there said there is no records of me even buying a car so showed them all my paperwork from the 1st dealer and 2nd dealer was in shock! they said the contract was illegal and took copies of it to show to the state etc ...I been told that its illegal because of usury law, its expired contract and that they were not legally able to finance as a dealer and not report to credit so in meantime ive been trying to find proof of all my side but they are now saying I only made 39 of 48 payments on it and its a year later now and they are taking me to court demanding over 2,000$ they waited a year never tried to reposses just now taking me to court ...can they actually get a judgement this way? How do I know if the contract is really illegal? Can a dealership do their own financing and not report it to credit agencies ?
Nothing illegal about not reporting to a credit agency
Unfortunately, there is nothing illegal about a buy here pay here company. In fact, they are quite common.
As for your court case, if you can not prove you made 48 payments and they can prove that you signed a contract saying you would make 48 payments, then of course they have a winable case.
The time constraints can easily be dismissed as they were unable to find you.
As for your new dealership making copies to send to the state, I really doubt that is what is happening. I think that perhaps the copies were made to show the lender that you did in fact have a financial commitment for 48 payments and that you have upheld that commitment but dealerships rarely turn one another in.
Signed purchase agreement
Signed purchase agreement for used certified van. but did not take delivery of van that night on saturday. salesman told me to leave 500.00 hold and i filled out credit check paperwork. made appt to go in following monday for financing and pick up van. called salesman and tol him I was having second thoughts and didn't want van. it had been in an accident and the price was too much. he cashed my check anyway. what recourse do I have? is the van legally mine. it is still liste on a used website although they removed it from their website tuesday.
need to take delivery
Most states will not consider the deal final until you take delivery of the purchased item.
The dealership can charge you to cancel the deal if it is posted anywhere visible in the office, on the website, or if it is in the paperwork you signed.
You can contact your bank to hold the check or if it is already cashed, you can have your bank go after the dealership for the amount of the check. Understand though that if the dealership has a cancellation policy, they are entitled to keep the check as a cancellation fee.
You can contact the General Manager of the Dealership to discuss a refund. Remember to stay calm though. Threats and accusations rarely turn out positively.
how do i find out what
how do i find out what states?
what states?
how do i find out what states - is there a site online?
2001 Jaquar S Type Paint Delamination
Our 2001 Jaguar S Model began paint delamination about a year ago. I did not know what was happening at first because it was small, segraatted parts of the car.
Now it is rampant and the two layers of paint coat and claer coat are peeling off at a drastic rate. I just learned from a paint shop it is delamination problem.
Has Ford/Jaguar been known for this problem.
Is there some leverage I can do to see if the dealership/Corporate Office will assist in getting the car repainted?
Thank you, John K.
recall and class action
There is both a recall and a class action on this issue. I just learned of the recall and have not reviewed its terms and limitations. Under CA law cases involving problems that occur outside warrant are very difficult. Hopefully the recall covers you. hal
recall information
http://www.ford.com/owner-services/maintenance-service/recall-informatio...
Paint problems
With the age of the vehicle, the only recourse you have is through a warranty. More than likely, the warranty has expired, but ifyou do have a warranty on the vehicle, i.e. manufacturer's warranty, you can contact the dealership to find out if paint is covered.
For recalls on your vehicle,
http://www.ford.com/owner-services/maintenance-service/recall-informatio...
I know that Mercedes MLs have the same problem with the D pillar and the window trim clear coat and while the car is under warranty, the dealership will replace any necessary parts.
I hope this helps
Matt
Bought a new Mazda or so i thought
Just recently purchased a new Mazda 3 2008.5 for my wife.
On arrival at home my wife noticed a few discrepencies on the purchase order. It showed that the vehicle when sold had 25 km on it (when in fact it had 75km), furhtermore it showed it as being a demo, not "ticked off" at new.
I'm certain the laws would be the same in the US as here in Edmonton, Alberta. My question is what can i do about it and should i worry about this or just let it go?
Denis
canada law
There is no U.S. law as each state is different and Canada is a different story. For this I really have to suggest you consult a lawyer for your country. hal
Refering you to a Canadian Law Site that deals with auto purchas
I hate to offer advice when it concerns applicable law from another country. I understand that Canadian contracts are worded a little differently. I am aware of a contract phrase that the dealership in this can may try to hide behind.
Look for this phrase on your contract:
"The undersigned hereby agrees that they have not relied on any other information, verbal or written, unless contained in this contract, in the signing of this contract."
Which in lay terms simply means that it doesn't matter what they told you, you agree to only what is written on the contract.
Also, I am going to refer you to a essentially a sister site to this site, though there is no link between the two. This site though refers to canadian law, in particular auto purchases, and may be a better source of information for you.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Canadian-Law-934/Auto-Purchase.htm
Good luck and definately pursue more information regarding your concerns.
Matt
Co-Signer Questions
My wife is the cosigner on my truck. She has better credit than me and we want to trade in the truck. What will be required from me to release it or whatever without them pulling my credit report so she can trade in my truck and purchse the new one under her name only
non-issue
A purchase under your wifes name is only under her credit and by law they cannot pull your credit without your permission. hal
cookie cutter response
The problem that is developing from this site is that the responses to questions are cookie cutter. One response is auto replied to each problem regardless of underlining circumstances.
Perfect example above. If your wife is not a registered owner on the vehicle, how is she going to trade it in? There is a difference in co-signer and registered owner. Essentially, a co-signer has all of the responsibilities of the buyer of the vehicle without having to be on the registration.
So, it is a non issue if you are both registered owners on the vehicle. It is a different story however if she is merely a co-signer and not one of the registered owners of the Truck.
More information
There is a lack of information here that is necessary. Is your wife also one of the registered owners of the truck she cosigned on?
Also, on that registration, it is important to note whether the verbage "and" or "or" appears on the registration seperating your names.
Here is why:
On vehicle registration that demonstrates the word "and" between the registered owners, it becomes necessary to have each owner sign off to release the title, i.e sell the truck.
If the registration uses the word "or", either party may sign the release.
It sounds like the easiest path for you to take is to call the dealership you want to purchase the new truck at. Explain the situation and let them offer you sollutions. While many dealerships are crooks, selling high and buying low, they ultimately want to sell a vehicle.
What you should do is try to get preapproval through your own credit union. The bank will ask about trade ins during the application process. Also try http://www.citifinancial.com/productsandservices/autoloans.php
Old Repo Debt
I'm wanting to buy a new car with a car brand I previously had almost 10 years ago. The issue is that in my younger and dumber days the car was repoed, they sold it at auction and sued me for the remainder as usual. My question is this...since that repo is now no longer on my report, I know the brand keeps records of course but if/when I go to reapply for the car will the creditor see that old debt, reactivate it and come after me for it? The SOL is well over 7 years like I said.
Thanks!
check credit report
I would start by checking the credit report. I doubt something over ten years ago will have any effect. hal
Repo
While credit account typically stay on your report for ten years now, the information doesn't magically disappear. It will still be on the report but shouldn't be used in the decision process involved with the new loan.
As for responsibility, that responsibility ends with the statue of limitations from your last acknowledgement of the account or the date of the judement. Which ever is more recent.
Credit Reports
I had to laugh when I saw the response from Hal here. I have a father in law who has a credit score of 815.
In 1979, he was late on a truck payment, because he was based in Japan and had problems with mail and the bank. Regardless of the circumstances, the payment was late.
In his entire credit history, this is his only late car payment, yet we were at the dealership together about a year ago, so he could cosign for his youngest daughter and her husband.
The finances manager came out with a frown on his face and explained to the shock of all of us that this late payment had come up in the credit report. That coupled with the amount of outstanding debt made the lender want to increase the interest rate. We walked out.
So, about 29 years later, that one late payment is still viewable. For anyone who has tried to get something removed from their credit report, they can see the irony in the response posted that it shouldn't be viewable after ten years.
Can I get my down-payment back?
We bought a car as in-house financed on April 7th, signed contract, no warranty ppwk, 250 mile return contract and gave $2500 as down payment, picked up the car on the 17th due to some things the dealer said they would fix and gave addtn'l down payment of $1100. We were told the car has never been in an accident and with it being a car with low miles it's in good condition only problem we'd have are the gas prices going up. The next day the 18th my husband brought it back b/c the break light in the back wasn't working and he said he'd fix it, my husband also noticed the car was heating up pretty fast and asked him if the fan was broken or what not, of course he told us no the BMW has it's own cooling system, it's fine no worries. On May 2nd (2 weeks and 1 day we've had the car) it over heated. We brought it back to the dealer/shop and he got mad at us saying it's our fault that the head gasket could be broke. We havn't even made the 1st payment on it and already it's like this. It's been 1 week and 3 days and he still has the car. If we don't call he doesn't call us to let us know what's going on with the car. He tells us we have a contract and we cannot get our down payment back and are still blaming us for the head gasket being blown. I don't care if he gives is 1/2 of our downpayment back just as long as we get something back. Is there something we can do or are we basically screwed?
blown gasket
I dont know enough facts as to age and milage when bought-with or without a service contract-as is or not. Do now what you should do before you buy. Run an autocheck.com and carfax history and as soon as you can have the car inspected both mechanically and for prior accidents. He is probably a crook and sold you the car in defective condition. Request in writing any replaced parts. Finally is he charging for the repair?
grasping for straws in this one
Let me start by saying I am not trying to defend the crook in this at all. But here are the indicators that will be taken into account.
I am guessing that the car made it past the 250 mile warranty since that wasn't an issue in the question.
Regardless of if the car was sold as is or with a warranty, you took the car knowing that there were repairs that were necessary and being completed. My reason for pointing this out is because it takes away the assumption that the car was perfect. A perfect car does not need to be fixed prior to selling it. In this case, the repairs took ten days.
There is also responsibility to the buyer if something is wrong with the vehicle that amounts to common sense judgement. In other words, if I have a flat tire, I can't drive that flat tire 15 miles to the dealership because it is warrantied and expect him to now replace the rims, brakes, tie rods, etc that are a result of my negligent decision to drive it 15 miles in that condition.
Lastly, in response to running the autocheck, unless you have it in writing that the dealership says that there are no prior accidents, it is a hearsay case. Let me tell you that you lose credibility with the repair work done to the vehicle and the fact that you did not do your own check prior to buying the car. If the dealership offered you their own report, then you have a leg to stand on.
Now that I have been completely one sided, this is what I would do. I would start by reporting them to the DMV. http://www.dmv.org/
Next, I would write a letter to the dealership informing them that there are discrepencies in the paperwork, the prior condition of the vehicle, and that they have ten days to fix the vehicle, offer a refund, or you will be contacting state and local attorneys.
Your best hope at this point is to sue them for the down payment back in small claims. I say this all the time when I tell people to sue in small claims. They are easy to win and hard to collect.
If you made your down payment with a check, get a copy of the cancelled check that shows the bank that the dealership deposited the money into.
If you win, you will need this information to garnish the account using the sheriff's dept.
Good luck to you.
Auto lender decided they wanted a down payment 2 weeks later
So we bought a 2008 Kia April 25th. Signed all the papers for the finance amount and all that. Spoke with the lender and gave all insurance infor and got all theirs. Now here we are May 12th and the dealer calls and tells us the bank wants a down payment. Can they really do this. We were told we were approved we signed the sale contract. No where does it say these are the terms if approved. So now we have to give them a down payment or give the car back. This is crazy.. Jen from MD
ten day rule
In most states the deal is final and the dealer cant make you change it after ten days. Carefully review the back of your contract it should state the dealer has ten days to cancel if it cannot get financing. If you need local help use naca.net to find an atty in your area. hal
ten day rule is a wrecking ball to your credit
I see all of these references to the ten day rule. The dealership wants to stand in as your bank as bad as you want to have someone tap dance all through your credit worthiness with inquiries for new credit.
Sure, if your financial responsibilities have taken a back seat to free spending and irresponsibility, then the ten day rule is a saving grace for individuals who cant' aquire credit.
Now, while Hal will tell you that legally the dealership is your bank, the dealership is going to run your loan through every lender they can the second you don't sign the paperwork with the new down payment. Is this legal? No, but how hard is it to get one of the three credit bureaus to take something negative off your credit?
The ten day rule is a wrecking ball to your credit score. You get 5 or 6 inquiries for a new account and you can watch your score free fall.
Then, what happens when you decide that you want to trade the vehicle in. Just imagine how that will look to the bank, that the lien holder is actually the dealership, no payments were recorded to your credit report, and you have several inquiries associated with the vehicle purchase. Red flags.
So, yes, you can take haven in the ten day rule. Or, you can stand behind your fiscal hardwork and dedication, and talk to the dealership about the down payment. It sounds like the paperwork was a preapproval and that the lender wants a little bit of a commitment from you.
Hal is right, you have haven in the ten day rule, but is it necessary. I don't think he offers credit counseling on his site.
Dealership won't sign lien release
I purchased a car from a dealer who shut down before transfering the tile to me although he did register the car in my name. I went to the DMV and they said that the car had a lien on it and I would have to contact the lien holder which I did. That lien holder is a Honda dealership and they said that no money was owed on the car. They said that they sold it to an auction house who sold it to the dealer who then sold it to me. They said that they had signed a lien release when they sold it and the auction house had done the same and that it was my dealer who failed to got o the DMV to get the lien taken off.
I asked what the probem was then, if no money was owed why couldn't they sign the release to which they said that they couldn't sign the lien release without a title.
I called the DMV and was told that they don't need a title to sign a release, so I called the Honda place back and they were making a ton of excuses and ended by saying that if they signed a lien release then the dealership who sold me the car may sue them later on if it's found that I don't own the car. I told them once again that the dealership was out of business and that I had in fact paid in full in cash for the car and had receipts, bill of sale etc. I was told to fax copies over and they would see what they could do but I am not holding my breath, I think I was just told that so they could get me off the phone!
So what do I do if they don't help? They have a lien on a car that is paid for, isn't that illegal? Thanks.
title issue
I would sue the dealer. its bond company whoever financed your car if the dealer got you financing and the honda dealer. One other approach is to tell them you will sue to determine rights to the car if they dont sign. you can agree to indemnify them if the dealer sues meaing you will take responsibility. Here the dealer has no case so you should be ok. hal
HELP! Can my Auto Finance Lender REALLY do this to me?
I bought a 2000 Ford Mustang from a Used Car dealer in December, 2003. The total amount financed was $9,504.98. The payments were $253.25 per month for five years with the last payment due in December of 2008. Per the loan calculator I did today, the interest rate is approx. 20.25%.
My problem is that I thought the principal on my loan should have been lower then what it was, so I ordered a statement of account after I made about two years of payments. When I received it, I found that the loan company failed to credit several payments made via automatic debit to my checking account. I provided them with bank statements as proof and they promised to correct it and then delayed and ultimately failed to do so. I argued over this for almost a year (email, letters sent certified etc.) before a supervisor sent another statement and after several meetings promised to correct my account and agreed with my figures. I thought that it was handled at that point and I was wrong. About a month later another lender took over my finance company with all new Employee's, loan records and rules. The payments that were corrected were reversed back out as if they were "NSF" checks or something and many others are still unaccounted for. I have gone through the whole procedure again with the new lender who claims they do not have the old lenders files etc for my account and they cannot find where my payments made were posted incorrectly to another account. They told me that regardless of my proof of payment if they could not locate where the money was posted incorrectly then they could not give me credit for it.
I had them send me another statement and this one is completely different then the old companies records and its WRONG - VERY WRONG.
I understand that when a loan is new the majority of your payments are posted to the interest of the loan and very little is actually principal. I ran a loan calculator to see what it should have looked like with the payments they do have posted to my loan and they do not match.
There are many months in the first year where the lender has posted the entire amount of money paid as "interest" and gave me no credit to my principal balance at all. In fact, almost every payment was posted to interest and additional late fees and check by phone fee's were added because I chose to use my bank to initiate the draft for the payment sent insted of using the lenders wire to debit for it.
The second year, third year and now the fourth year of payments are no different with the majority of the money paid going 100% monthly to interest payments and nothing to my principal balance of my loan.
I am afraid of this lender and dont want to risk loosing my car when I am less then a year away from paying it off so I decided to pay it off early. The last statement said the payoff balance of my loan was $5,355.66 so I sent them $5,500.00 and another request to credit the missing payments of over $1,000.00. I should have over paid the loan by hundreds of dollars, instead they delayed sending a statement for two months and now state that I have a previous amount billed of $253.25 and a regular payment of $253.25 due that total $506.50 and their total amount due column says $506.50. Then there is a "prior balance" column that says "prior balance" due $725.80 and "current balance" due is $725.80. But the payment coupon at the bottom of the statement says "TOTAL PAYMENT DUE" is $506.50. That statement is dated 4/8/2008 and I just received it Friday. Before I had the chance for Monday to come so I could contact them (today 5-12-08) they sent a reposessor to my old address which is my Fathers house (Sunday night on mothers day at 1030pm) demanding the car. They pounded on the door until they woke my Sister and accused her of being "Me" and hiding the car somewhere. She called me in tears.
I do not know what to do about this problem? I am not going to give them my car for fear that it will disappear and they will not allow me to redeem it correctly.
I still have over $1,000 in payments that were made that are not credited to my account. I can prove this with bank statements. They have posted almost all of my payments ever made to 100% interest and late charges with zero posted to principal even in the last year of payments. I do not owe them any money and I dont think I should have to pay for reposessor fee's. My account is not past due etc. It should have been paid in full in December of 2008 and I have paid it off early instead and some how I still owe them MORE money?
I think I need an attorney? Can they post my payments to 100% interest legally and do this to me?
HELP
rule of 78
I dont know your state. Some states use what is called the rule of 78. Under this type of contract all payments first go to interest then only after all interest is paid goes to principal. You are entitled to have all payments credited. Look at your contract and see if the bix for rule of 78 is checked. Even if it is tyour total payments should be the amount shown on the contract. Use naca.ne to find a local atty. hal
Boat Contract Mistake
I purchased a new boat from a dealer in Newport Beach, CA. on April 10, 2008 the Purchase price was $66,000. I also had a trade. On April 23, 2008, I received a Fed EX with a new contract in it. The letter stated that the first contract finance numbers were wrong. The interest rate of 7.5% was correct, but the number of years for the monthly payment was wrong. Insted of being a term of 15 years like on the contract stated, the monthly payment was calculated on a 20 year loan. I did not want to pay that payment for 20 years. I didn't sign the new contract and they have picked up the boat. In the meantime they have paid off my trade. They now say that I have to sign the new contract or they are going to sue me. I know that the Fed Ex was sent after the 10 day period, so did I have a right to make them stick to that payment and the 15 year term? At this point I want them to keep the new boat and now that they have paid off the trade I think they own that too. All I want is out at this point. Can they sue me for anything?
boat contract
I dont know if your contract had a ten day clause-if so there conduct was illegal. I also dont know if the payoff for you trade was less than what you owed-negative equity. If there is negative equity they could sue for that and you could sue for violating the ten day rule if it applies. hal
Meeting of National Association Of Consumer Attorneys Meeting
As many of you know who read my comments I often refer people to naca.net to find a local attorney. Naca which is the group mentioned above is based in Washington D.C> and serves as an advocate for consumer rights. Our National autofraud conference is next week and I will Attend and teach a class. I am going to try and get attorneys from other states to help out. As I am only licensed in California I have to limit my advise to out of state writers to general law. II hope using naca.net has worked for some of you and I will try and make this column better and more national. hal
past 10 day cancellation policy
My husband and I purchased a 2007 Chevy Suburban on April 7,2008 it was and is a great car and we shopped quite a bit before going with a very reputable car dealership. With a credit check and all the application process, check stubs place of employment and a downpayment agreement of $6000.00 we were approved. We don't have bad credit just not established longer than 3 years, so the dealership said it's yours your approved, take it home. We had not heard from them for a couple of weeks and so we called to find out why we haven't received a payment book?been notified by the bank who financed? They said they would get back to us, a few days later still nothing so we called again and the finance department said the man who was handling it was out of the office, took a message and would have him call us back. A few days later nothing, the next day my husband called and reached him and said that he was out of town and sorry, but he will take care of it, he would contact the financer who picked us up and find out what the delay is. A few days later we called again and he said he would call us back and we began to worry because our payment was gonna be due.
On the 7th we called and said "our payment is due who do we pay? and he said "oh don't worry your not gonna be late its the finance companies fault not yours" I will be in touch with you on Friday which is today the 9th of May! On cue my phone rings and its the salesman that sold us the car! He says, "you need to come in with a co-signer because we couldn't find a finance company! I said " what happens if I don't have one? and why are you telling me now after a month? and why am I getting letters from several finance companies saying that I was approved but under different terms? What are these terms and why are you turning them down without giving us the terms? he didn't have an answer for any of the Questions just alot of stammering and studdering as I could tell he got nervous, I asked and what if I dont' bring a co-signer today like requested and he said "then you need to bring the car back today!!!
So needless to say I started investigating my rights and stumbled across your site and read considerably about the 10 day cancellation, so I called them back and spoke to his boss who said that he should have told us that we need a co-signer because our job history wasn't long enough which is a lie because my husband has worked in the same job for 5 years! and then he said that the field he is in, "construction" is not very stable right now so the banks are scrutinizing all fields involving real estate! so we need a co-signer immediatly! I asked him why I needed a co-signer if my credit scores are nearly 700 and he said so I can get the lower interest rate! Now this is all getting confusing, I feel he wants to get me in to re-sign another contract to void the first one they messed up on. And my question is ? Can they do this? Can they change the contract a month later? request a co-signer a month later? and should I make the payment to their finance dept. until this is settled? I love my car and feel they are trying to cover their mess up. Help?
Its your car
No ifs ands or buts, this car is yours and you dont and should not do anything. The one key is to make your payment on time to the dealer, by law they are now your bank. If they try anything or give you any problem let me know-they actually stole the car from one reader and we just had them pay a $25,000 penalty-based on really god facts. Good luck hal
Florida; More than MSRP, Trade in payoff not itemized.
Hi Hal,
We are currently requesting arbitration due to mechanical issues with our vehicle. However, there have always been a few concerns in regard to the financial documents that we have been unable to get cleared up thus far. First of all, we began having problems post 24k miles and were unaware of the Lemon Law. Second, we have made attempts at contacting an attorney regarding our loan documentation, only we are unwilling to pay someone $300 to tell us that we don't have a case. That said, here is my question:
Were we charged too much?
-MSRP $30,545; w/Options $37,735; Destination $685; Savings -$2,650; Total $35,770.
-Trade-in Payoff $11,033.38; Trade-in Allowance N/A (as shown in contract).
-Agreed upon value $39,033.25; Gross Capitalized Cost + Addendum $41,253.25. ( GAP 495 + Protection Plan 1130 + Lender Aquisition 595)
-Down Payment $4,023.84 (Cash Paid) -First month payment $538.59 @ 66 months.
-End of lease value $9,412 w/ 66k miles (Current value as of 5/10, $9,000 w/ 38k miles).
--------------------------No paper work showing negative equity for trade in, no money factor in Doc's.------------------------------------
Gross Capitalized Cost $41,253.00
Capitalized Cost Reduction - $4,500.00
Adjusted Capitalized Cost = $36,753.25
Residual Value - $9,412.00
Depreciation and Amortized Amounts = $27,341.25
Rent Charge + $5,880.60
Total Base Payments = $33,221.85
Lease Payments / 66
Base Monthly Payment = $503.36
Monthly Sales/ Use Tax + $35.23
Total Monthly Payment = $538.59
---------------------------------Hal, please help us decipher this dealer's gorilla math--------------------------------------
We tried speaking with the dealership to inquire about the "money factor" and possible trade in options. They will not work with us, nor disclose %.
We contacted the Lender to request the payoff amount and sure enough, it is nearly 3 times more than the current BB value.
Please assist. . .
money factor
The gross cap cost should not exceed the msrp plus options, so it looks like under Ca law you were overcharged, but I cannot be sure without all the docs. Money factor is very simple to figure but they all pretend thay dont know. Money factor is a daily interest rate. Just take the rate say .30 times it by 2.4 and your apr is around 7.2. Most sonsumer attorneys will review your case for free. Use naca.net to find a consumer atty in your area. hal
P.S. Forgot to mention.
P.S. Forgot to mention. Since this was a leased vehicle sold as NEW, the mileage was 474 on delivery! When askes, the Salesman advised vehicle had been used by a Dealership associate for personal use. In defense of the "low" mileage use, the Salesman said that this was the only vehicle on their lot at the time with these options. And that there would be a long wait to order a comparable model. He was very assuring about most new cars having this amount of mileage and that the vehicle was garanteed to be new anyway. ~We were dupped, I know! LOL But I think 474 miles is new in FL?
warranty
warranty would be my biggest concern. The vehicle warranty starts from the first date the car was sold or leased. Could be some time contradictions there. Something to look into.
new vs. used
Each state has its own rules. Run a car fax just to check. In many states your facts make the car used. hal
Signed purchase contract, took delivery, 4 weeks later...
I am from Wisconsin. I purchased my vehicle on 3/14/08. On 3/12/08 I put $2000 down on my credit card. My total down payment was to be $3000, but they would only allow my to put $2000 on a credit card. I was not planning to buy on the 12th so I did not have any other money along. I planned to take delivery on 3/14/08, which I did. I did financing myself through a local credit union. So to the dealer, this was a cash deal. When I went to take delivery, I gave them the check from the credit union and $1000 cash. (I have a rainy day fund that I keep in my safe for things I want, but can't afford). You see I had a max out of pocket of $2000, but to get the deal done I needed 1000 more. On 4/10/08 I received calls from 3 different people from the dealership saying that I owe them $1006.77. I talked with the finance guy that I gave the money to and he said that he'd look in the deal folder to see if it was there and he'd get back to me. I couldn't believe that they don't have the money, nor that he would find it in a deal folder. He never called me back, so I assumed they found it or found their mistake. Then on 4/22/08 I got a certified letter from the cfo of the dealership stating once again the I owe them $1006.77 and if I don't pay they're going to send to collections which will destroy my credit score. I called him and left a voicemail. He didn't return my call. I called again and got him, his excuse he didn't have my number. We didn't get anywhere and he asked what time he could call the next day and that he'd call at 4:30 with the finance guy. Well, that call came at 5:25, again, we got no where. He said that he wouldn't walk out of a dealership without a receipt for money paid. I didn't feel I needed one, I have a signed motor vehicle purchase contract and I took delivery of the car... that's as much of a receipt as I thought I needed. The finance guy said there wasn't any cash. That's quite a memory he's got, 7 weeks after a transaction that was much like many other transactions that he's done in that time and he remembers specifics of my deal that lasted all of 2 minutes. I told them he never got out of his chair, so how would I have a receipt for anything. The cfo said I have a receipt for the check from the bank and I told him that I don't. He said we do so you must. The finance guy then toned in and said that when they are really busy, which they were, he will not always go and have a check receipted right away. But the cfo had just told me that he wouldn't give money to anyone and not get a receipt and that the motor vehicle purchase contract was not a receipt and can't be used as one. He said he has to look in to something and he will call me on time at 4:30 sharp the next day. He never called, a week later I got a voicemail while at work from him stating that if I don't pay him the $1000, he's going to turn this over to an attorney for collections. The strange thing is he must have looked in to my claim that I didn't owe them the $6.77 as that was interest on my trades loan that they were forcing me to pay right at the end. I had the loan paid off to the exact amount in the motor vehicle purchase contract and they said it can take time to pay that off so I have to pay their interest during that time. I did not even have the $6.77 on me, he told me not a big deal, we're not going to loose a deal over that. When they finally paid towards my loan, they didn't pay it off, the $6.77 remained, so I paid it. That's the only proof I have of anything and now from speaking on the phone with them, they know that and sounds like they are going to send collections after me. I don't need or want that, I have an excellent credit score, I have all my bills paid in full, and paid on time or early. The only thing that I have going for me, I think, is on the back of the motor vehicle service contract towards the bottom of note 10, it states, "If this is a cash transaction you are bound to the terms of the contract. If you have taken delivery of the vehicle this contract is final." And on the front of the contract it is checked that this is a cash transaction. Do I have a leg to stand on with this? Do they? Please answer back ASAP as I need to know what I should do since they are going to an attorney. I can't afford an attorney so I don't know what I'll do if I have to go to court with this. Please help!!
get receipt
You are far from the first person who has had their cash stolen. Yes you can defend and win this case. It would help if you can find any proof of takeing the cash from someone. Your contract is your best evidence it shows paid. Go on the offensive. Report them to the DMV got to the city attorney and report they stole your money and now are extorting you. Go to the local consumer reporters. If they put this on the air and can find one other person you win big. Good luck with these crooks. hal
past the 10 day cancellation policy
My husband and I purchased a 2007 Chevy Suburban on April 7,2008 it was and is a great car and we shopped quite a bit before going with a very reputable car dealership. With a credit check and all the application process, check stubs place of employment and a downpayment agreement of $6000.00 we were approved. We don't have bad credit just not established longer than 3 years, so the dealership said it's yours your approved, take it home. We had not heard from them for a couple of weeks and so we called to find out why we haven't received a payment book?been notified by the bank who financed? They said they would get back to us, a few days later still nothing so we called again and the finance department said the man who was handling it was out of the office, took a message and would have him call us back. A few days later nothing, the next day my husband called and reached him and said that he was out of town and sorry, but he will take care of it, he would contact the financer who picked us up and find out what the delay is. A few days later we called again and he said he would call us back and we began to worry because our payment was gonna be due.
On the 7th we called and said "our payment is due who do we pay? and he said "oh don't worry your not gonna be late its the finance companies fault not yours" I will be in touch with you on Friday which is today the 9th of May! On cue my phone rings and its the salesman that sold us the car! He says, "you need to come in with a co-signer because we couldn't find a finance company! I said " what happens if I don't have one? and why are you telling me now after a month? and why am I getting letters from several finance companies saying that I was approved but under different terms? What are these terms and why are you turning them down without giving us the terms? he didn't have an answer for any of the Questions just alot of stammering and studdering as I could tell he got nervous, I asked and what if I dont' bring a co-signer today like requested and he said "then you need to bring the car back today!!!
So needless to say I started investigating my rights and stumbled across your site and read considerably about the 10 day cancellation, so I called them back and spoke to his boss who said that he should have told us that we need a co-signer because our job history wasn't long enough which is a lie because my husband has worked in the same job for 5 years! and then he said that the field he is in, "construction" is not very stable right now so the banks are scrutinizing all fields involving real estate! so we need a co-signer immediatly! I asked him why I needed a co-signer if my credit scores are nearly 700 and he said so I can get the lower interest rate! Now this is all getting confusing, I feel he wants to get me in to re-sign another contract to void the first one they messed up on. And my question is ? Can they do this? Can they change the contract a month later? request a co-signer a month later? and should I make the payment to their finance dept. until this is settled? I love my car and feel they are trying to cover their mess up. Help?
see answer above
This is a duplicate of the question above.
used car sales and verbal agreements
Thank you for the reply. The manager was harrassing me about coming back and giving him more money last Friday but I did not show up and I have not heard from him since. I really believe that he just wanted the money because he would refer to the people over him as "they" and told me to contact him under cover on his cell phone instead of calling the office openly to speak with who he referred to as "they" want their money. I have already made the first installment to the lienholder and see no reason to disturb the contract at this point. I am looking forward to making the payments as agreed. That manager and seller I believe agreed to waived the fee and I have no idea what the intentions of the manager came out to be almost 4 weeks after I drove the vehicle off the lot. I prefer him to send his request in writing instead of making unreasonable request and demand for payment the same day. The whole situation resembles a lie and I want no part of it. Voicing my personal opinion in Oakland California. Sincerely, Pamela
Used Car Sales and verbal agreements
On 4/6/08 my 2001 Saturn was stolen from in front of my house and I was under a lot of stress because I needed transportation to work. It led me to another car deal
with the same company that I bought the Saturn from over 3 years ago ,Saturn of Oakland. The verbal agreements kept changing as the sell went on over the next week. At first it started out with the fact that I did not have the funds available for the downpayment and they found a loan company right away. This led to the rushing of buying the vehicle and closing the loan. The seller finally advised me over the phone that they were waiving the fees and to come and pick up the vehicle. However, the finance manager put the downpayment amount on the contract. After 4 weeks of my having the vehicle and thinking that they waived the fee, the finance manager is calling me through his cell phone and harrassing me to come in a pay the downpayment. It is causing a lot of anquish at this point and I am confused and really don't know what to do about this, because I thought this was settle and the seller waived the fee and the finance manager is speaking but not the original seller.
Confused in Oakland
downpayment issue
Unless the downpayment is shown as deffered your contract shows it as paid. If they argue it was deffered then the contract is illegal and yu get your money back. Ask them to choose their position. hal
Hey, I purchased an Infiniti
Hey,
I purchased an Infiniti from a small dealership in Georgia about three months ago. I got a car fax report on the car, and it checked out with flying colors. The guy at car dealership claimed it had never been in a wreck and all this. Well, I just found out after getting my oil changed a few weeks ago that my windshield wiper fluid reserve tank was cracked. I took it into the Infiniti dealership to get the reserve tank fixed because the car is still under warranty. The dealer told me that it would not be under warranty because my car was in a wreck. After the dealer told me that the car has NEVER been in an accident and the carfax verified it had never been in an accident, I found out that my car was involved in a very very bad accident a year ago. The accident was so bad that the engine and dashboard had to be removed, and the car sat around in an auto shop for 5+ months. I have a very hard time believing that the dealership I bought the car from had no idea of this accident. To make matters worse..the crack in the windershield wiper reserve tank showed that someone tried to GLUE it instead of replacing it, so obviously someone tried to conceal that it was broken in an accident. This all seems like a huge case of fraud..is there anything I can do??
prior wreck
I think prior wreck cases are very strong and depending on the facts we ask a lot for them. I would hope all states would clearlt make this practice illegal. Use naca.net to find a local consumer attorney. hal
I bought a used car in
I bought a used car in February and paid in full in cash. A few weeks ago I called the dealer as I thought my license plates were taking a while to arrive and he said that he was waiting for paperwork from the place he got it from before he could complete everything. I called the DMV and they said that the dealer had initiated the paperwork but that was all. Well I tried calling the dealership today and their phone has been disconnected, I called a business next door to them and they told me that the lot was vacant so now what do I do? I called the DMV back and they would not give me any information over the phone as I asked for the name of the people that my dealer got it from.
So now I am freaking out thinking that my car is going to be reposessed, what are my legal rights? I live in California, thanks in advance.
I bought a used car in
As a follow up, I went to the dmv this afternoon and got the contact info I needed, however, I was told that the place my dealer got it from held a lien on the vehicle. I drove to that dealership, 50 miles away, and spoke to some idiot who didn't have a clue and was told to call the sales manager tomorrow. He did say that the car should have not been sold with a lien on it so who is at fault? Them or the dealership who sold it to me? What recourse do I have if they won't help me? Thanks in advance.
Have since found out that
Have since found out that the dealership went bankrupt and owes money to the dealership that has the lien on my car, am I libel for this money, if I don't pay will my car be reposessed? Doesn't the dealership who has the lien have to go after them?