Guide to Auto Scams in New and Used Car Sales

Welcome to UCAN's auto scam page! Don't forget to "Ask Hal" if you have any auto fraud related questions. He's one of the top auto fraud attorneys in California, and he will respond to your inquiries FREE of CHARGE. Questions will be answered based on California law and general legal principles.

Automobile fraud occurs when a retailer seller misrepresents or fails to disclose material facts regarding a new or used vehicle.

There are many categories of automobile fraud, including: violating the "single document rule;" requiring a deferred down payment with improper procedures; including "negative equity"/"over-allowance" in the sale; sale of wrecked vehicles; sale of previously repurchased "lemon" vehicles; odometer fraud; and various other financial frauds that occur in the advertising or at the time of sale or lease of the vehicle. The defendants in auto fraud cases may include insurance companies, car dealers, car manufacturers, and car finance companies.

The following are some types of auto fraud that we frequently see with vehicle consumers:

Single Document Rule:
The Automobile Sales Finance Act (AFSA) provides that all obligations of both parties in a transaction must be contained in a single document (which explains why purchase agreements are so long in the auto industry). Often, however, dealerships will have customers sign additional documents, such as trade-in forms stating that the customer agrees to pay any difference between the value of their trade-in vehicle and the amount owed on that vehicle. Or, the dealership will agree to make payments on a trade-in vehicle but not include the trade-in vehicle in the purchase agreement. Another example is a "hold check agreement" (see below) whereby the customer agrees to pay additional money towards the down payment on a later date. Each of these documents violates the one document rule.

Hold Check Agreement/Deferred Down Payment:
Many dealership customers are unable to pay the entire down payment at the time the purchase contract is signed. Often dealerships will allow the customer to make a down payment in payments (called deferred down payments). Although the vehicle code recognizes these deferred down payments, they must be itemized in the purchase contract, including the amounts and due dates for the deferred payments. Some dealerships, however, will have customers write checks for the deferred down payments and then agree not to deposit the checks until an agreed upon date. The customer is then made to sign a separate agreement that lays out the dates on which the checks will be cashed and additional provisions regarding any returned checks - thus creating additional obligations that are not included in the purchase agreement.

Sticker Price:
The vehicle code states that a dealership cannot sell a new vehicle for more than sticker price (a.k.a. the manufacturer's suggested retail price, or MSRP) unless there is a dealer addendum sticker disclosing itemized costs above MSRP physically affixed to the car. Inflating the cash price of a vehicle - as in the case of a negative equity deal (see above) often results in selling a vehicle for higher than the MSRP, while also affecting the amount charged for taxes, licensing & registration and finance charges.

Spanish Language:
Civil Code § 1632 provides that if certain transactions, including lease/purchase of a vehicle, is primarily negotiated in Spanish, then a Spanish translation of the contract must be provided to the customer prior to signing the English language contract. This law was recently expanded to include Chinese, Vietnamese, Tagalog and Korean. Failure to comply gives the customer the right to rescind the transaction.

Used Vehicle Disclosures/Misrepresentation:
Dealerships are required to disclose material known facts about a used vehicle, such as if it was:

  • involved in a prior accident (that caused substantial damages) [See below for more information on this issue]
  • a prior rental vehicle
  • a lemon law ‘buy back,' meaning the vehicle was repurchased by either the manufacturer or dealer under the lemon law because of a defect subject to odometer tampering/malfunction

New/Used/Demo/Unwind:
The AFSA requires that a dealership describe the vehicle being purchased as either "new" or "used." Although the "used" designation applies to demonstrator vehicles (a.k.a. "demos," vehicles used by manufacturer or dealership representatives) and "unwinds" (vehicles previously sold, then returned, usually because of financing problems), these vehicles are often represented as "new" to customers.

Negative Equity/Over-Allowance:
Arises in a transaction that includes a trade-in vehicle. Generally, the customer is led to believe that the dealership is valuing the trade-in vehicle at the same amount that's owed (so that the customer doesn't appear to owe anything on the trade-in). In reality, however, the actual cash value given by the dealership is less than the amount owed, and the difference is added to the cash price of the vehicle being purchased. If this is done it is illegal, even if the customer knows and agrees to it. The extra amount cannot be added to the vehicle line 1(a)1 per our precedent-setting case of Thompson v. 10,000 RV's.

Packing:
In a "packing" case the customer is quoted an inflated monthly payment. If he or she accepts this amount, the dealership adds accessories (alarms, service contracts, GAP insurance, paint/fabric protection, etc.) to the purchase contract to reach the inflated quoted price. The customer doesn't realize that the accessories are optional nor that they're paying extra for the accessories, which are often represented as "included" with the vehicle.

Rewritten Contract/Backdating:
Often a customer won't qualify for financing under the terms of the first purchase contract and may be required to increase a down payment, APR, etc. to quality for a loan. The dealership then has the customer sign a second contract with the new terms but backdates it with the date of the first contract, sticking the customer with financing charges for a period during which the contract wasn't yet in effect. In addition to making a material misrepresentation of when the customer takes the obligation of the new contract, a backdated contract often violates the single document rule (see below) because another form, usually called "Acknowledgment of the Rewritten Contract," has the actual date when the contract was signed. In addition, many customers aren't informed that they can opt to cancel the contract and return the new vehicle and have the down payment and trade-in vehicle refunded, rather than signing a second contract with less favorable financing terms.

Forgery:
Dealerships sometimes forge the signature of customers on subsequent contracts that change the terms of the original signed contract (especially if the customer refuses to sign the new contract). Other commonly forged documents include: credit applications (with fraudulent representations about income, etc.), as well as buyer's guides and disclosure forms (to prevent buyers from reading their buyers' rights and/or information that may cause them to reconsider their purchase decisions).

Certified Used Vehicles:
Many manufacturers and dealerships advertise used vehicles as "certified pre-owned," supposedly guaranteeing to the customer that the vehicle is in good working order and free from major structural damage, including previous accidents. Often times, however, dealerships misrepresent used vehicles that have suffered previous accidents, structural damage (or other conditions that would preclude certification under the dealership's advertised standards) as "certified" vehicles - misleading customers into paying a premium price for a damaged product.

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bad credit loan - taking over payments

I purchased a vehicle through craigslist. The deal is that I take over smeone's payment. I put $2000 down and my payments would be roughly $405 a month for a $28,000 van. The $2000.00 went through a "broker" who works between me and the owner. The deal is I have bad credit and they cant make their payments so it sounded awesme to me.

Signed all the paperwork including a legal right to drive the vehicle and I must insure the vehicle.. blah blah blah.

I get back home and try to insure the vehicle. I must include the owner and the finance company. Problem is, Im not on the registration so they couldnt do it. So I call the "broker" and he doesnt return my calls. I had already made the first payment also but from then on out I stopped making payments. A month later, "they" come and take the van. At this point, I could never get the broker to return my calls.

I even called the finance company to see if they would work with me on this and they couldnt speak to me because its not my vehicle.

So basically I got scammed $2000.00

Now the owner is clling me trying to get the last months payment from me and the mandatory insurance for 2 months the finance compny through into the mix at $200 a month.

Does all of this sound illegal to you?

DO I have any rights here in filing a civil/criminalk charges against the OWNER? Im sure the "broker" is long gone. As far as I know, they are all one in the same person.

Any advice would be helpful.. I already know getting my credit back up would be the first advice!!! Im already paying for that n everything I do!!!

thanks

Credit Switch

Hello,

We purchased a Mazda in April, when talking to the GM about financing (the finance person was ill that day) my wife and I stated we only wanted Mazda Motor Credit, or no deal. We haggled about interest rates a bit, we told him we can get financing at this interest rate through our Credit Union, and he looked it up and stated that he can have Mazda Motor Credit match that rate. And he assured us it would be only Mazda Motor Credit. We told him we would not sign unless it was. This week I got a payment bill from US Bank, it seems the GM did not tell the finance person to only go through Mazda Motor Credit, in which we specifically asked for, and decided for us whom we are being financed through. I called to complain, the finance person contacted my wife yesterday to apologize repeatedly for their lack of communication, and asked what can they do to make it right? My wife asked him to call back to speak to me, as I am the one whom feels that they are taking advantage of me.
My question is...Can I demand them to refinance me through Mazda Motor Credit? And, is there a breech of contract, being that we were going with the GM's verbal aggeement on financing when signing the contract? Hal, What can we do?

Many thanks in advance, MK/CK

Dealer won't give us paperwork for purchase

Two weeks ago, my husband and I purchased a 2006 Chevy truck from a local dealership. We bought the truck in both our names, and as we were signing the paperwork, I carefully read over all the details - everything was correct:

Purchase Price: $30,850
Downpayment: $3,500 (to also cover tax and title)
Extended Warranty to 75K miles ($2,500)
Loan Term: 60 mos.
Rate: 5.9%
Plow for the truck would be brought from sister dealership and was promised to be in good condition.

That was Sunday afternoon. My husband was to pick the truck up Monday afternoon, as the dealership was taking care of the registration and new plates. The salesman asked that I call him Monday to confirm plates were received, etc. before my husband picked up the truck. I called Monday afternoon, and was told the plow wouldn't arrive until Thursday, but my husband could still pick up the truck. My husband picked up the truck, and on Thursday I called to see if the plow was ready. The salesman tells me he needs to check and will call me back. Two hours later, I still had not heard from him, so my husband called. He spoke to the service department who told him that they had the plow, but were waiting for management to sign off on the workorder to fix a part. Confused, my husband asked for the manager, who said he'd call back. We did not hear back from him Thursday.

Later that night, my husband asked me to pull out the paperwork for the truck. Sadly, I thought HE had taken it, and so we now had NO copies of paperwork that we signed for the truck. My husband and father in law went to the dealership Friday morning. After a rather nasty exchange of words, the plow was fixed and my husband took it. He was told that our copies of the signed paperwork had "just" been picked up by the mailman. That was Friday morning, and today is Tuesday. We still have not received the copies. I have called the lienholder and have verified that the loan terms are correct. I have also received my payment books. My concern now is that the dealership is pocketing the money for the Extended Warranty, and by not providing us with copies of the signed documents, we can't prove that we ever BOUGHT that warranty.

I plan to call the dealership tomorrow morning to ask for the paperwork to be faxed to me, but based on their not-so-upfont business practices thus far, I'm guessing they aren't going to send it. What rights do I have to obtain copies of those documents? And what can I do if I do get the paperwork, and it isn't what I signed?

Thanks.

Refund of down payment

I needed a car so I decided to try and get preapproved before I started to look. I was approved for 18,000 with Capital One. I saw a 2003 Toyota Solara for $6700.00 on the web and decided to take a look at the car. I test drove it, did a visual inspection and everything seemed ok. So I decided to buy it.

The problem was that Capital One requires that I purchase car from a franchised dealer, which this dealer wasn't. So I decided to try and get financing through the dealer. I signed a credit application and left a $500.00 Down payment ( the dealer said that his lenders woudn't approve without it). That was on a Thursday. The next day, Friday, the bank called to verify my information. I didn't hear from neither the dealer or the bank until I called on the following Wednesday to tell them that I found another car and used my preapproved credit form Capital one.

The sales manager told me I was approved for the loan through the dealer's bank and was scheduled to take delivery the next day. I told him that I was not contacted and I had already brought another car. I told him that I just wanted my down payment back. He told me that he couldn't give it to me because once the credit was approved, the bank automatically takes $750.00 from the dealership. I then told him that I never aggreed to a nonrefunded deposit and they cannot force me to accept the terms of a loan. I again demanded that my deposit be refunded to me. I told him that this was not legal, and he cannot hold money for product that was never delivered. But he said that he talked to his lawyer , who informed him that it was legal and he can keep my money to pay the bank.

I dont think this is Legal in Pennsylvania. Am I right? I was going the contact the attorney general or a lawyer, but I am not sure if I am right.

Thanks

car dealer didn't collect down payment

I bought a car 7 days ago and unintentionally left without giving them the $2000 downpayment. They called the next morning and we asked if they'd take a credit card over the phone to settle that up. The guy who called us didn't know and said he'd call us back. We didn't hear from them so, 6 days later, we called them back and inquired to the same guy about the status of the paperwork and the payoff of the loan for the car we traded, etc. The guy told us everything was settled, our sales contract and paperwork were in the mail and the loan payoff on the old loan could take a couple of weeks but everything we fine an in order. We asked if we owed them anything else and he said "no". I know I still owe $2000 - what happens now? I'm not trying to not pay - but I can't believe their not trying to collect.

Is buyers contract binding?

Hello Hal,
Help! We went to buy a car & signed the buyers order & the dealer also signed it. We also signed the Conditional sale & delivery agreement. We had told the sales guy we were not decided about finance options - but he said we had to sign these documents & later we could discuss our options with the finance people. Later, the finance guy gave us a high rate of interest so we told him we'd like to use our own pre-approved loan. He did a turn-around & told us that the price agreed to is conditional on us financing with them & that's what they understood! This was a lie! we had told them repeatedly we do not want to make any finance committments. So we walked out. Now we are worried if they can say that we have to buy the car from them and is it legally binding on us? We did not pay them anything for it & didnt take delivery either. We did not sign any finance papers either.conditional sale & delivery agreement & also a paper "we owe" where it states that they owe us nothing on the car & we accept delivery of it & we owe potion of this is scored out. They did not give us a copy of buyers order, we only were given the We are in Texas. Your advice would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Can a car dealer raise the finance charge 5 days later

my husband just purchased a 3 year old used car and was told that he would get a higher interest rate because we had filed bankruptcy a year ago. The papers were all signed at 11.9% interest rate. my husband has had the car for 5 days now and the dealership's fianance dept. called him to tell him that they were not able to get him that interest rate after all, that it would be 16.9% instead. needless to say my husband is furious that he signed paperwork at 11.9 and now they want him to sign new paperwork at 16.9. my husband refuses to sign a new contract and told the dealership they either void out the contract and give him back his $5000 down payment that he had originally given them or keep the deal at the 11.9 percent interest rate originally signed and agreed upon. NOW The dealership is giving him the run around and telling hom to come back in a few days when the GM is in because he is the only one that can authorize this....what can we do, is this legal????

Did you get an answer to

Did you get an answer to this question ? I had this happen to me in 2003 and KNEW it was fishy.. Now I am thinking about going after this car company that did it..

Thanks for your time.. Chris from Jersey

Dealer pocketed down payment

I recently purchased a car for $18,000. The orignal price was for $18,999. I put a down payment of $4,000. I signed the contract but I didn't notice that the price of car was still $18,999. The total price of the car was listed at $27,000+ dollars for my car!!

$18,999 + Tax + $4000 down payment = $27,000.

I called the sales guy and asked him what he was trying to pull. He just gave me a whole lot of garbage. I love the car and want to keep it. I just made the 1st payment. Since I got financed for 100% of the car, How do I get my $4000 down payment returned? I live in California.

In-Correct Value Of Vehicle

My husband and I purchased a used vehicle from a car dealership for about $14,000 are loan ended up calculating in the amount of $22,000. The dealership had promised us an easy trade-in after a year, which they lied. Anyway, a year later rolls around and the dealership tells us they will not trade-in are vehicle because the loan is too high and then we found out that the vehicle we had purchased a year ago wasn't even worth around $14,000, but it was worth around $5,000. Do we have the right to sue for the car to be refianced into the correct value of the car at the original date the car was purchased and to be credit for all the car payments we have made towards the vehicle? They completely ripped us off!!!!

Which car do I own?

I signed documents at dealer #1, late at night. They didn't have the car on the lot, they had to go get it.
I did not give them my down payment. I did not take the car.
I got an unrelated deal from dealer #2 which is what I was really looking for. They told me that there was no sale for Car #1.
I bought Car #2 and paid my down payment and took the car with me.

When I tell dealer #1 that I don't want the car, they state it's an iron clad contract that is enforcable, and they'll come after me for the down payment, repo the car, ruin my credit, etc... They also state I can get out of Car #2 because "I was lied to." Either that, or I really do own them both.

Which is correct? Do I own Car 1, 2, or both?

2001 VW Passat

Going back to the electrical probelms. I purchased a used 2001 vw passat approx. 75000 from a dealership. It came with Arizona State Implied Warranties. I noticed after about a week both halfshafts were bad and the boots were bad. So i took it and the dealership stated they replaced them. It has been 11,000 miles and 8 months later and they are bad again. The vehicle is not drivable. I took the car back to the dealership and they said those were not under warranty because they did not replace them they just put new cv boots on them. So I asked the service guy at the counter and he said because I was in housed financed the car comes needinh repairs and that was my responsibility to repair it. So acccording to him they knownly sold me a car that needed these repairs. But they will not repair it now. Can I do anything?

Used Car Dealer Raised Price at the last minute

I am in California and have been in the market for a car. This Monday, I finally found the perfect one. I negotiated with the salesman, who called the owner and lowered the price. The woman who was in charge of the paperwork was out of the office for several hours, and as I had a class I couldn't miss, I paid a deposit and made arrangements to return on Thursday. I am a 90 minute drive away, and when I arrrived Thursday, they informed me that the owner claimed he had not agreed to the price - but he DID - I was in the same room when the salesman called!!! They wanted an additional $1000, and when I refused they refunded my deposit. They didn't even have the decency to call me & save me the drive. The next day, I called and asked to speak to the owner, they would not give me his number & I had to leave a message. Needless to say, he has not returned my call. I did some research online and discovered that the business phone number is listed as the owner's private phone through the phone company, and when I searched the DMV datbase, I could not find a licence under the business name, although there was a listing for a previous dealer at the same address.
Is there any action I can or should take? I am FURIOUS at this situation, I feel I have been royally screwed!
Thanks for your time!

No license plates.

I live in WA and on Dec 24 of 2007 I purchased a used pickup in Idaho at a dealer. It's now Feb 08 of 2008 and still no plates. After numerous calls, and the typical "I'll check into and I'll call you back.", replies, they have yet to contact me back once. The day of the purchase seemed normal, except the fact they told me they were out of odometer statements and that they would send me one in the mail, which never arrived. I've contacted my local licensing service companies, but they can't license the vehicle without the title from the dealership. The dealership has sent me a second temporary plate, and said they would send me a third if I needed one. Okay, a third? Somethings not right. I'm really getting a little anxious here. I also received a past due notice on my trade in. I NEVER miss a payment on anything. After a four phone calls from ME, they finally assured me that the trade has been paid. Any suggestions on what might be going on, or how to get my vehicle licensed, or just give this truck back. I'm just tired of getting no response from them. Thanks Hal for any advice.

Incorrect Odometer

I bought a car from a private individual who told me he had the car HPI checked and everything was perfect. On the advert for the car he stated that the mileage was genuine 50000. On purchasing the car I found out the next day that the mileage was in excess of 102000. My own HPI report confirmed this. The advert also said the car was in excellent condition. I found out on driving home that the speedometer was very temperamental. What recourse do I have?

Hello i recently purchased a

Hello i recently purchased a used 06 Impala on a Friday 1/25/08 night. I am young and this was my first car purchase and i think the salesman could sense this. As soon as i got to the dealership he started showing me cars and said he could get me a deal and lower the price on one for me. This sounded nice at the time, so we got into the office and he handed me some papers to sign and said he would be right back, one was a credit app., i signed the paper and when he came back he started filling in my information. Before i could say anything he put my income as 2100 a month which is not true. He said since i was young he had to do this so that the bank would approve. He also raised my time on my job to a year which is also not true. Also, he told me that he was going to tell the bank that i put 1500+ down so i could get approved. I told him i could put 600 down and that i would bring it in the morning 1/26/08. He also said that he would need my proof of income, and proof of residence and told me he knew a person that could make check stubs to reflect a 2100 income. He asked did i have a check that he could hold for me that night and i said NO thank god i dont write checks. So he said he would tell his manager that i put the 600 down that night so i could take the car home. I signed all of the papers and took the car. The next morning 1/26/08, i called the dealership and asked could i bring the car back because i had a bad feeling about the whole deal. I made up a lie about my mom having a better credit score and that we wanted everything to be in her name. I spoke to the salesman that morning and he said that nothing was final until they received my proof of income for the bank Capital One. In my head i was thinking, if i dont bring my proof of income, the bank will deny the loan and i can bring the car back. When i got to the dealership i spoke with the finance manager and told him the story about my mom and could he cancel everything we had done the night before. I told him that the salesman said that the deal wasnt done until my Proof of income was received and he said " So you're going to commit a federal offense by not bringing your proof of income?" I said no but this is what your salesman told me. (keep in mind the salesman told the finance manager i had already put my money down and that he had all of this information) The finance manager told me there was nothing he could do and that the deal was done because he had submitted my information to Capital One already that morning 1/26/08, which i think is a lie. He said the car was mine. I left the car at the dealership that day but after thinking i came and picked the car back up that night 1/26/08. After i told them the story about my mom wanting EVERYTHING in her name and to take mine off they said they would only do so if they could get her information over the phone. I told them that she would be in town on MONDAY 1/28/08 which is untrue, so i could hopefully find a way out of this deal because Something has to be illegal. When i signed the papers i did not receive a copy of the contract or title or anything but a buyers guide warranty paper, an odometer disclosure statement which is also incorrect but ill get to that in a min., and a WE OWE service appt. paper. The odometer statement read 33606 on 1/25/08. When i came back to get the car on 1/26/08 it said 35115. I took a picture of this for evidence. I live about 5 miles away from the dealership and the car was at the dealership from Sat 1/26/08 morning until that night around 8 pm, so how is it possible that 1,509 miles could have been added between that time. Even though the salesman told me that the deal was already final, AFTER telling me that he would need my proof of income for it to be final, he is still calling me for this information. I also forgot to add that since the salesman told the finance manager i had already paid the down payment of 600, the finance manager was looking for the payment and since i had not paid the money yet the salesman told me that it is going to be taken out of his check because he lied and said i had already paid it. He said he would be fired if they didnt take it out of his check. I am not giving any MONEY, PROOF OF INCOME, OR PROOF OF RESIDENCE because i do not want the car. It is bad timing and i feel like i have been taken advantage of and would like to do more research before just going out and buying a car. ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED IN THIS MATTER.

Down Payment

Hi I bought a car from a dealership. Recently it has been giving out and not starting. I have had a series of problems with the car and decided i want to give it back and get my down payment back. I have only had it for2 weeks. Can I still get my down payment back?

no right to return a car

hal's picture

There is no general right to reurn a car or any vehicle. I am missing the facts needed to see if you have any legal rights, i would start by checking the cars history and having a complete inspection as to its condition. To give any advise I need age and milage when bought, whether it was certified sold with a warranty or as-is and the number and nature of the repairs. hal

Down Payment

Hi I bought a car from a dealership. Recently it has been giving out and not starting. I have had a series of problems with the car and decided i want to give it back and get my down payment back. I have only had it for2 weeks. Can I still get my down payment back?

Down Payment

Hi I bought a car from a dealership. Recently it has been giving out and not starting. I have had a series of problems with the car and decided i want to give it back and get my down payment back. I have only had it for2 weeks. Can I still get my down payment back?

Dealer renigs on deal

I saw you had answered many questions about the law and car dealers. I was wondering if you could answer my question below?

I was on ebay and saw a truck forsale. I called the party to find out it was at our local car dealer (Fred Beans Chevrolet in Doylestown, Pennsylvania). I told the sales representastive I would be up in a day to look at the car. He explained to me he would hold the car till I made it up to the dealership.The next day I went to see the car around 7:00pm. I looked at the car and it looked nice. My friend and I negotiated the price and asked the dealer if I could take the car and have it checked out by a local ford dealer. I also left a $500.00 deposit which they were suppose to charge to my credit card. The sales representative had taken the numbers on a piece of paper as I drove away. Our agreement was all verbal and he took my information so I could drive the car to my local Ford Dealer.

The agreement was if the car passed the condition the dealer stated I would be back the next day with cash for the car. We negotiated the price as stated before. I also told them where I was taking the car. The next next day I took the car to local ford dealer to have it checked out. I dropped the truck off around 7:30am. I called the ford dealer back to get the report and they told me that fred beans, the card dealer that owned the car was coming to get it. I called the sales representative I made the deal with and he said I am sorry but we sold it to a man off ebay. He said ebay told them they had to sell the car to someone that clicked the buy it now pricing. I tried to resolve the issue ammicallbly with the dealer and he said tough.

I asked them to provide another vehicle with similar specs and year and we could still make this work. They said sorry they had the right to do what they wanted. They also asked me to spend more money for an older truck. I would like to bring them to small claims court and ask for the difference that it will cost me to get the same kind of truck with the same equipment. Do I have a case as they made a deal with me and I left a deposit so they would not sell the truck on me. They said well we did not run the credit card and paid the local ford dealer for looking at the truck.

I feel we had a contract and the fred beans says tough. I belive since I am a consumer it was easier for them to sell it to the ebay guy than fight ebay. Do I have a case?

Please let me know.

Regards,

Michael Dolnick

no deal

hal's picture

In CA there is no binding deal untill a contract is signed and the car taken, even then there is ten days to get financing. I dont like what they did but asyou could still back out so could the dealer in my opinion. hal

need advice

I brought a car 7 months ago from a dealership. I had the car checked and everything but am now having 2 major problems. when I brought the car it listed that it had an alarm system in it as one of the upgrades/ options. I have now found out the alarm was never installed correctly and was wired wrong. This issue has caused alot of the expensive sensors/ computer modules in the car to have blown recenltly. The dealer doesnt want to pay to fix it as it past 30 days but this problem has been caused by faulty installation. They also have been having problems getting the title transferred to me so I can get the tags/registration for the car. Is it even legal for the dealership to have sold me the car if the title wasnt cleared and ready for them to transfer it to me

warranty of title

hal's picture

Every sales comes with a warranty that the seller can deliver title which has not been done here. There is also an implied warrranty that the car will work. If the electrical problems started in the first thirty days your case is even better. Without title I would demand a complete refund and if need be report them to the DMV and crimminal authorities. Dealers have gone to jail for selling cars without itles. hal

Purchased Used 2001 VW Passat

Going back to the electrical probelms. I purchased a used 2001 vw passat approx. 75000 from a dealership. It came with Arizona State Implied Warranties. I noticed after about a week both halfshafts were bad and the boots were bad. So i took it and the dealership stated they replaced them. It has been 11,000 miles and 8 months later and they are bad again. The vehicle is not drivable. I took the car back to the dealership and they said those were not under warranty because they did not replace them they just put new cv boots on them. So I asked the service guy at the counter and he said because I was in housed financed the car comes needinh repairs and that was my responsibility to repair it. So acccording to him they knownly sold me a car that needed these repairs. But they will not repair it now. Can I do anything?

Private Party Auto Purchase

My cousin went out and purchased a car for it today, he paid cash for the car and was then told that the brake fluid was just a little low and there was a bottle in the trunk and to just pour it in (Why didn't he just run then?!?!) But he did do this and drove the hour home, before reaching home the brakes on the car went out completely and after coasting to a stop it was discovered that there is a large hole in the brake line. The seller obviously knew this but did not disclose it. Is there any recourse that we could take??

privat party woes

hal's picture

These cases are difficulr as even if you win you must then try and collect. I would have the car inspected. Then you can sue for the cost of the brake repair or to return the car depending onthe report. Most attorneys wont take private sale cases. hal

Down Payment Scam

I inquired about a 99 isuzu trooper, salesman wanted to run credit app. i let him know i wanted to put 1,000 down, he faxed me app, and the next day he stated that the down payment was needed. i used my credit card for the transaction, but before the transaction i asked him "if the down payment didn't go thru how would i get my money back?", he stated "o we'd just simply credit your account back" so upon my better judgement i gave him the needed info. Something was pulling me from making this decision but my lust for the vehicle made me do it, hahaha, but whats not a laughing matter is the fact that when the loan app didn't go thru because of the vehicles mileage, i asked for my down payment back and the salesman began to play the merry go round with reasons as to why it wasn't credited back to my account. i have taped our conversations because i knew something was gonna transpire, i got there intentions on tape, lol so they adknowledge that they do owe me back the money. but do i need to file a police report, i work at a lawfirm and have one ready to go monday morning. what other steps would you suggest i take other than going up there, because going up there may not put me in a good light. thank you for your listening ear.

downpayment

hal's picture

A number of older letters just showed up nad I dont know why. I will still provide responses for general info. I would put mu complaint in writing to the general manager letting him know he has five business days to return the money. At the same time I would file a complaint with he DMV. If no money after 5 days file criminal charges. Also protest the charge to your credit card company and ask for the charges to be recersed. hal

used car misrepresented as a year newer

After purchasing a used vehicle that was supposed to be a '06, found out when getting the vehicle licensed, that the vehicle was a '05.
The dealer says, "Too bad, you got a good deal either way." Is there anything that can be done?
Thanks for any help and advice!

wrong year

hal's picture

You can cancel the sale or sue for the difference in value between the years. hal

I just purchased a new car

I work for toyota and we get really good deals on our vehicals. I went to order my car and told the man that my credit was not good, but i was told that me working for toyota they financed everyone. Well my car came in they called me and told me to come and pick it up. When i got there i didn't want to drive the car until i was sure i was approved. So we sat down did paper work and because i worked for toyota im the vendor the approved me. We did all the paper work i signed everything took the car home. Now 7 days later i get a call saying i was not approved, but yet everything is done just like ive always done when i purchased a car. Now they want me to come back in and either give them the car or ive got to have a co-signer. The night i took the car they told me i was approved ive done all the finance paper work i just don't know what to do cause to me its a done deal. What do i do.
Thank you...

dealer dishonesty

I leased a BMW x3 in January of this year, and have yet to receive the license plates. Calls to the dealer result in;"We will look into it" comments.
a call to the DMV has made me think something funny is going on perhaps the car was used or an "unwind" vehicle. The car had 117 miles on it per my paperwork thought purported to be new. What is my recourse.

Sincerely,
Scott Sackin
714-374-3535

Selling used truck

I recently put my used truck for sale on cars.com. I received an offer for the asking price. I disclosed to the buyer that my truck was in an accident and expected that they would want to negotiate on the price. However, they wrote me back and claimed that the condition of my truck was "acceptable" to their "client" and that they were going to overpay me by $7,000 because their client had given them a cashier's check for $21000, and my truck was only $14000. Of course I was then supposed to write them a check giving them the $7,000 back after the transaction. This appears to be a scam, and I am considering contacting the local authorities. Do you have any warnings about these types of scams?

co-signer

we had purchased a new vehicle with my mother in law as a cosigner, and our car as a trade in that is paid off and a deffered downpayment of 1000.00 dollars. We had let them know that my husband and I didn't have the best credit but they said no problem when they ran my mother in laws credit they said my mother in law and my husband can get the vehicle together. Mind you my mother in law doesn't work or have a drivers license she has a CA I.D. card they said agsin "no problem". So we took the car home this was on the 17th of the month on the 27th of the month so 11 days later we received a call from the salesman asking us if any one has tried to contact us my husband said "no why" the salesman said "because your mom doesn't have a CA drivers license you have to bring the car back or find a new co-signer. So I then called the fianace lady we delt with and asked her what was going on since they knew all this before we had even took the car home and that on there contract in the back where it says seller rights it says that they have 10 days to notify and that we were told everything was fine at the time of the deal she began saying it wasn't my mother in law it was my husbands credit and that my mother in law could get the car on her own because she has the credit for it. Was this legal of the dealeship and what does a co-signer need to co-sign for a vehicle because we keep getting told different things?

Car Sale Without Seeing The Car - Can I Get Out Of It?

I made a very impulsive purchase--a car that I had not seen that could supposedly be obtained from another dealer. I put a large down payment on the vehicle and signed paperwork to finance the balance.

I have not seen a window sticker on the car. The dealer marked it up considerably over sticker without showing another sticker.

I have not taken delivery of the car, and do not want the car - it is not a color I will be happy with.

Is it too late to get out of this deal? (Washington state...if that has a bearing on this.)

Dealership Cannot Fulfill Sales Contract

I bought a new 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2 months ago. The dealership told me they can install power locks and windows for $1,400.

I agreed and the dealership added this to the total price of car(not itemized on contract) and put the specifics on a due bill.

I received a call telling me they cannot fulfill this because of the type of Jeep I have and mechanical restraints. This was confirmed by many mechanics as well.

The dealership offered the 1,400 back but I would prefer giving the vehicle back.

Is the dealership obligated to rescind the contract?
I am a CA resident.

The dealership said they would buy the contract back but wanted me to sign a backdated agreement, and blank payoff authorization. (Somethings Fishy...) They said they could "shove this vehicle down my throat if we wanted to..."

Please Help!
D

no locks

hal's picture

I have a number of cases like yours-where the dealer promises something then cant deliver and then just offers the money back. Without going into a law school lesson the issue is "partial breach" vs "total Breach". One gets you money back the other out of the contract. The issue is does the breach i.e. what they did wrong got to the heart of the contract or is it a side issue. In English it comes down to if you would have bought the car or not without the add-ons. As a second issue they violated a number of laws by not itemizing the after market products. These are new regulations part of the recent car buyers bill of rights and the issue again is what do you get. If the extra products were a deal breaker I think we can get you out. I would need to be faxed the contract and the due bill and hear from you in respose to the issues-such as how important were these items. Hal

no locks-email

Can you send fax number to shellhorn5 [at] msn [dot] com?

D

fax

hal's picture

1-858-348-1150 all my info is on my webpage click on my name or type in autofraudlegalcenter.com

no locks- response

Thank you for your reply. Yes, the dealership knew I did not want the vehicle unless the power locks and windows could be installed. This was the main issue for me.

I would also like to know what charges I am responsible for if the dealership rescinds, such as milage or finances charges...

What number may I fax to?

D

charges

hal's picture

Our positon has always been none.

Questionable Deal

Hal,

I came across this website and could really use your advice on what I believe to be auto fraud. Back in April of this year I purchased a used car from a dealership here in Alabama. I had a trade in also. The advertised price was $25,991. I even have a Full Disclosure Customer Worksheet that has this price listed in the blank next to MSRP and Selling Price. Well about a week ago I went to a dealership looking for a vehicle that was a little more practical. I was informed I'm $12,000 upside down in the vehicle I purchased. As I got to looking at the paperwork from this deal. I've noticed that the selling price on the contract I signed is $31,590. The gross allowance on the trade in is $26080 and the actual payoff on the trade in was $26079.45 and they made it look like there was enough left over for a .55 downpayment. Which in turn after all fees and taxes the final amount financed came to $32,227.06 After carefully looking over the contract I don't know exactly how much negative equity was really in the vehicle I traded in. On top of all this one to two weeks after we signed the contract, they sent me another contract saying they had me a better rate, so hurry and sign the new contract and overnight it back. Well after seeing some of your responses on this website I've contacted a few lawyers from the naca.net website in my area. One is telling me well they just put the negative equity into the price. Funny because on the naca.net website it says he is experienced in auto fraud. Well if that's the case then why doesn't he recognize then that this is one thing they have done illegal. Also they never sent me a copy of either sales contract, so I went to them to collect one. The first time I went they handed me the old contract (the first one we signed). When I returned and told them I wanted a copy of the final and valid contract that was signed the business manager said they couldn't find the original one so they printed off a new one, she signed it and told me if I wanted a signed copy that we would just have to sign the one she gave me which didn't contain our signatures. And then she asked me " Why do you need it, I don't see why you would need it?". I'm basically just trying to find out where I stand with this because two of the lawyers I have contacted have told me there isn't much they can do. One says there wouldn't be enough money in it for him basically because he works on contingency and plus since I signed an arbitration agreement with the dealership it more than likely wouldn't go into litigation. So basically, bottom line, I would appreciate any insight that you might be able to provide on the situation.

negative equity

hal's picture

My california case holding it illegal to roll negative equity into line 1a1 has been adopted by many but not all states. You can legally show negative equity if you show it while calculating downpayment and as a prior credit or lease balance. Without looking I dont know how yours was done. Also different states have different rules. If you fax or pdf me the contract and ad I can givce a general evaluation. Not all consumer attorneys really understand the financing issues. If yours was done wrong I can give you an explanation letter that might help in finding an attorney. I try to help teach other attorneys this area when possible. hal

Could you email me your fax

Could you email me your fax number, so I can send you the copy of the contract? The email is jbb_uab [at] hotmail [dot] com

New Car "Bait and Switch"

I was in the process of buying a new truck when at the last minute the price changed. I had agreed on a model, extras, and price. I signed a document with pricing included and put down a $500.00 desposit to sucure the truck. The truck that I wanted was located in three days, I was contacted and went to inspect the truck. I agreed that this truch was the one I wanted and the dealership was to install the remaining extras that was in the agreement. I even took my son up to show him the truck prior to the remaining in house work was to be performed. Four dayslater I received a call from the dealership to inform me that the truck that I thought I had purchased was $2,000.00 more than the price we had mutually agreement upon. Counter offers were made in the range of $400.00 off by the dealership. Shouldn't the orgin deal be binding since I inspected and agreed to purchase that specific truck? And there is also the fact that money ($500.00) had exchanged hands in the agreement. Should and does the dealership have to honor the deal?

done deal

hal's picture

I agree it should be honored. Technically a deal is not legally done untill paid in full or you take delivery. I use this to get consumers out of deals. So I cant be sure. I would not pay a penny extra. If you want to fax a pdf me the gagreement I will look at it and tell you if I think you can enforce it. I can of course only do this for California deals. Hal

Done Deal

Thanks for the reply, after further discussions with their customer serive department, the GM finally got involved and honored the deal. Wow, right does prevail!

Deferred Down Payment

I purchased a 2006 Mercedes Benz in July of this year. I was given a "spot delivery". I was told that my creditscore was pretty low and I would need a cosigner. I told the salesman that I didn't have a cosigner, and thank you very much for your time. Instead of leaving, I stayed and listemed to the salesman tell me how great of a car I was trying to buy. Mind you, this is my dream car. After telling him that I needed to know numbers, I revealed that I was able to make a downpayment. I was allowed to put 10,000.00 on a credit card, and they accepted deferred payment for the remaining 10,000.00. I have been told that you are not to use a credit card for a downpayment. This was not a debit card, it is a credit card.

The next day, I realized that there were a lot of different things that we wrong with the car and I asked the salesman to make sure that they were taken care of. We made a list of what the repairs needed to be, however, they weren't completed. Upon my return back to my home state, I am informed by the local Mercedes dealership that the car has had extensive body work, and involved in an accident. I was livid at that fact, on top of finding out thatthe repairs they claimed to have made, were nony not completed, they were covered under warranty. (I still had manufactures warranty) I was lied to and gievn the run around.

I contacted the dealership on 3 occassions to seek assistance, to no avail, so I took matters into my own hands and stopped payment on the 2 checks that I had written for 5,000.00, respectively. I had the work done and sent them the receipts to prove that the work had in fact been done. I had to replace the rear tires @ 700.00 for 2, less than 2 weeks after I purchased the car. I was told that tires were not their responsibilty. Also, they haven't paid off the 2 trades that I traded in either. I had to make not only the new car payment, but the trade that is sitting in florida, on their lot and a SUV that they have yet to pick up from me. I deducted the amount of repairs along with the payments that I had to make on the trades. I needed to preserve my credit.

I didn't receive a buyers guide, as there was no guide in the vehicle, there wasn't even an owner's manual in the car when I got it. I wasn't informed that the car had been in an accident and was told that it was my responsibity to request a car fax. Car fax doesn't show an accident, but the hood certainly did along with the bottom of the bumper. Because I acted in good faith, I expected the same. I also acted in Good faith when I stopped payment on the checks to have the car repaired. I had no malicious intent at all

I am now being told that they have "bought my deal back" from the lender, however, the lender knows nothing of this. The dealership sent someone to pick up the car and didn't even have my trade, a tow truck, or my 10,000.00 refund and they thought I was surrender the car without any paperwork. I have informed them that I will submit payment in the difference of all repairs and car payments.

Can they cancel the deal? Can they be made to pay my trades off? Please advise.

lots of issues

hal's picture

In general you have to keep the entire deal or no deal at all and go back to what is known as the statur quo-meaning to before the deal. You dont want the car and why would you. You get your trades and all your money back and they get the viehicle. Your case truley sounds like you need a local consumer attorney. Use naca.net to find one. hal

forged credit application

my dealership forged my signature on a credit application. and my car was exported from canada a made in canada market car

canada car

hal's picture

Forging your name is illegal and even a crimminal act. I know in California Canadian cars are usually not legal because of the difference in smog requirements. If you are in CA feel free to contact us to provide more facts. Outside of CA use naca.net to find a local atty. hal

Cosigner Scam

My husband and I went to a dealer to finance a vehicle. We have always paid cash for everything, so we had no credit. The interest rate was going to be high, so the finance manager suggested we get a cosigner. We are in Illinois and my brother in Florida agreed to cosign. The vehicle we wanted was a 2003 Buick Rendezvous. It was listed at $13,995 and they offered us $1500 for our 1994 Isuzu Trooper. They told us there were some forms my brother would have to sign and they would call us to come in to do the paperwork when they had what they needed from him.
My brother got the paperwork and called the dealership because he said the papers looked like he was buying the car. The finance manager assured him that he was just the cosigner. He also pressured my brother and said he only had a couple days to get the papers back or the deal would fall through. My brother signed them and sent them back. The dealer called us about 2 weeks after that and said they needed proof of residence from my brother. My brother sent them what they needed.
A week after that, we got the call that everything was done and we could come in. When we got there, all they had for us were temporary plates. We asked for the contracts and they said that the people who handled that weren't in on Saturday. We asked for our salesman and we were told he no longer worked there.
On Monday I called. The finance person we were told to speak with about our contracts no longer worked there either. I was transferred to the finance manager. I told him that we didn't have any contracts. He informed me that they had already been signed by my brother. They had financed the car to him and we were no where on the papers. I asked him the details because we had no idea who the bank was, how much the payments are, or what the interest rate was, etc... He said the purchase price was $15,995 with $700 for my trade. I stopped him short and said that is not what we agreed. I told him the original deal and said that we were buying the car and not my brother. He said it was too late because my brother had already signed and it wasn't his fault if we were misquoted. I pulled up the web site and our vehicle was still there, listed at the $13,995 we were originally told. I told him I was looking at the car right then on the website and it was listed at $13,995. He said he also wasn't responsible for prices that are incorrect in advertisements. He said for us to come back in a year with proof that we had paid the payments, not my brother, and he would try to refinance it for us. And that better interest rate is 14%!
I am sure that they got around the deal and made some extra money by misrepresenting the documents to my brother and not showing them to us just to get some extra money.

cosighner issue

hal's picture

I have a number of cases similar to yours and I believe you have a strong case. Find a local atty through naca.net I will be glad to help whoever you find with forms from my cases on this subject. Simply put this was a scam and you should take action as should your brother in the same suit. Hal

Either get COSIGNER or Lose Your $2000 Downpayment!!!

In June of this year I recieved a letter stating that I was preapproved for a new car and wether or not I decided to get a car I still won a $1000 online shopping spree courtesy of DarCars Chryler Jeep and Dodge/ Maryland. I then made a decision to try and see if I would get approved for a vehicle instead of buying one off the street since I did have $2000 cash on hand which I could use for a downpayment. I now regret it!

When I arrived I explained to the salesman that I did not have excellent credit and that I would only want a car that was affordable for the income which I recieve from my Veterans Benefits. I only make close to $1400 per month which is all net pay since I live with my relatives. I firmly explained this to the salesman and he told me that he'd take care of me. To make a long story short they told me I was preapproved for $18000 with $1,500 down so to pick a car under that amount and I chose a Dodge Caliber. Although it was good news that I was preapproved I became suspicous because after telling me this, they said that they were having troubles with the bank etc. I then was asked for a cosigner and I told them I didnt have anyone. They kep badgering me and insisting on me calling relatives or friends to cosign for me and I told them that I only wanted a vehicle if they could finance me with only me being under the contract. I then got skeptical and told them that Id rather not get a new vehicle at all since they kept changing the terms. Finally they said if I give them a total of $2000 down, that theyd be able to get me the car. They gave me the vehicle. The exact date was June 13 2007 ....

About a week after the sale I had the a guy in finance calling me saying that they needed a copy of my proof of income, I asked if there was a problem and he stated that someone had messed up on my contract and forgot to make copies of the paper work I brought in on the date of my sale. I faxed them my VA award letter along with my direct deposit information from my bank showing my monthly payments from the VA. After he recieved it he told me everything should be fine. Shortly after, several other sales associates as well as "Finance Managers/Directors" from the dealership were calling me asking me for the same proof of income I faxed in to the first guy that called. I explained to them that I already gave them that information etc that if there was something wrong I could take the car back to avoid further problems. Approx 3 days later I receive another call from the first guy asking me to go to the dealer because they needed me to sign some more papers. This was about 2 weeks after the sale. On June 30th, I ended up showing up at the dealer and they told me that I needed to get a different car and that I couldnt keep the one they initially gave me. They told me I had to get a used one from their lot and they had 3 to choose from a Chevy Cobalt, 2007 Saturn Ion, or a 1995 Mitsubishi Galant. They told me I had been approved for any of those 3 and after convincing me that this was my only option I decided for the Ion. They took the other car from me and had me fill out a new contract. After finalizing the sale I asked if they had everything they needed and they told me that given all the troubles that they had put me through already, I wouldnt have to hear from them again.

Yesterday, August 10th I receive a call from the "Sales Manager" telling me that I had to come in the same day because I needed to sign some papers. I told him what was the problem now since I already had gone through this previously. He got very rude with me and when I asked to speak with the person in charge of the dealership he said he was the person in charge. I called and spoke with the receptionist who refused to give me her name after being denied to speak with a supervisor per my request. I called Dodges Customer Service phone number and had the representative contact the dealer on my behalf. The representative at Dodge said that I needed to go to the dealership because I needed to get a cosigner to be able to keep the latest vehicle they gave me. I called back to the dealership and was transfered to the "Finance Director" and he told me I needed to get a cosigner or give back the vehicle. I told him Id give the vehicle back if theyd give me my $2000 downpayment back because when I made the contract I was approved without a cosigner. He then got very rude over the phone accusing me that I lied about the amount that I made and that the only way I could keep the vehicle was to get a cosigner and that there was no way I was getting my $2000 back from them since I had the vehicle since June 30th. I told him my intentions were to buy the car and not rent it so that I wanted my money back. I told him that on various occasions even with the previous vehicle I was asked to show proof of my income and I showed them my award letter stating that I recieve $1396 per month I did not appreciate being called a liar and that if any mistakes were done with the numbers it had to be done from their end. I asked to speak with the last 2 Finance reps from the first car transaction and the second one and he told me they were fired..I asked if it had anything to do with my contract and he said basically yes..I told him I was going to find out what I could to to protect myself before I went to the dealership again because I suspected fraud and I did not want to end up without my downpayment nor a car. What Should I DO HAL???? This is in the state of MD.

crooks in maryland

hal's picture

Simply put they are outright crooks. Dont give them the car or sighn anything. You need a local atty. Try naca.net They cannot change the deal after 10 days in most states and they cannot keep your money or force you int a new deal. hal

Contact Your Attorney General I Got MY MONEY BACK!!!

After following up with a Lawyer, I was advised that what the dealer did was called a SPOT DELIVERY which they arent supposed to do. Since the dealership was trying to scam me out of my down payment, the lawyer told me that since they were clearly violating the consumer protection laws, to contact my attorney general first to see if they could handle it for me for free before dishing out some more money for his services. I did and the attorney general told me the same thing. They told me to go to the dealership and ask to be MADE WHOLE which means that they have to take back the vehicle and give back my down payment and all contracts between both party are voided as if there wasnt a sale at all. The dealership played games for 5 hours before finally giving me my money back!!!

rewrite

hal's picture

One if they dont honor your contract you can cancel. Depending on what hey said or wrote you may already have that right-for instace if they sent you a letter cancelling the deal. If they have not cancelled they can still honor deal but lose right to cancel after 10 days. hal

Dealer sending notice after 10 days

Hello,

Please help me out with this situation. I haven't been able to find any information to make a sound decision.

I purchased a new car almost a month ago and received a new contract in the mail stating the bank rejected the contract due to a typographical errors and received a notice stating the first contract is no longer valid. I traded in a car which they have already paid off with my lender. It's been well over the 10 day limit.

If I opt out of the deal since it's going really sour, they told me that I have to BUY my trade back.

Is forcing me to Buy my trade back (since they paid off already) legal?

Thank you...

trade issue

hal's picture

what liars. even if they did cancek within 10 days they owe you the payoff or fair market vaue whichever is higher. Is the new contact identical or just fixing typos-let me know. Otherwise this is a done deal and they cant change it. If this is in california let me know if you need help. hal

Rewriting contract

The dealer called me to come in saying I did not qualify for loan as written in the conditional agreement and wanted me to sign new papers with much higher interest rate. I went in and told the sales manager I no longer wanted the vehicle and wanted to cancel and he said he still had time to see if he could find a loan source. I really dont want to do business with them as they really tried to rip me off on the price of the car and now with this increase in interest thing. How much time does he legally have in California to find a source?
Thank you for your time.

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